__EVH early sound

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__EVH early sound

Postby ValveLust on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:54 pm

Came across this the other day while researching variacs and didn't realize EVH used his plexi as a preamp. Just shows how you..... :Doh: learn something every day!

http://www.legendarytones.com/brownsound.html
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby ragtweed on Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:07 am

Although it says he used the variac to run the amp more "reliably", this is somewhat debatable. For one thing running an amp at approx. 80% of its specified line voltage is going to drop the heater voltage down to approx. 5 volts which is not good for tube life. It might not be harmful to the rest of the amp, but it will kill tubes pre-maturely. I also think that Eddie did this for reasons of tone moreso than running his Super Lead "reliably". As far as the dummy load thing goes, that set-up sounds like a crudely fashioned attenuator. Purely resistive type attenuators usually tend to sound like arse. I'm surprised his tone was as good as it was with that set-up.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby ValveLust on Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:29 am

If we're are talking about out of the wall voltages in the US which mine is close to 125V.
80% of 125V = 100V. which these old amps don't like any more than 110V and probably not much less than 100V.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby cap10jack on Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:15 am

Has anyone here actually tried this setup?? I ran across this article a few years back and have been wanting to try it out sometime to see how it sounds... the only part Im unsure of is the signal coming out of the dummy load to the effects... I have a THD Hotplate, But wouldn't one need to have something between the THD Hotplate and the effects to bring the signal down before going into the effects and then on to the power amp??
Even if this setup did sound good, I just can't using it to often, as Its got to be really hard on the amp, and I can't believe that ed didn't go through lots of output trannies with this setup...
BTW I have an old 60s marshall, and was told by a old wise tech back in the 80s to always us it with a variac, but only at 110V, what the amp was made for...
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby ampdude on Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:15 pm

That article has taken Ed's later mid 80s H&H slaving rig and gone back in time with it to 1977.

Ed did not slave amps in the early 1977 VH1 days.

It was just effects in front of the dimed very loud amp with bias up and a Variac set around 90v.

Slaving a amp into a clean tube power amp or a tube amps effects return, can sound pretty good and the overall volume can be controlled by the tube power amp while the first amp can be dimed or set to any volume level.

Some people have trouble with the THD Hotplates line out when they slave amps with it.
The solution is to use the THD Hotplate as a load only and have a resistor and pot voltage divider in parallel with the THD hotplate with the line level output taken from the pots wiper.
The resistor should be around 3 times the value of the pot, ie a 150k resistor and a 50k pot or around those values.

Also a speaker lead should be used between Amp1 and the THD Hotplate (load) and not a guitar lead.

Amp1 -> THD Hotplate with parallel resistor and pot and output taken from the pots wiper -> optional effects -> Amp2


Code: Select all
         /----THD Hotplate--------\
Amp1-----                         |
         \--resistor---pot wiper--/
                        |
                        |
                        --------- optional effects---Amp2


Image

Straight from the horses mouth instead of from a guitar site.

“Well here is what I was told by Rudy Leiren Ed's long time tech. This was just last week. Ed's VHI setup was MXR flanger-MXR phaser-Echoplex-amp. His main 100-watt was used on everything. The tube bias was turned all the way up and the variac was set to 91 volts into only one cab.

“There is a pic of the early days with a 50-watt head and a Vox head. Rudy told me the 50 was a backup to the 100, and the Vox was a last-ditch backup. Ed often borrowed amps for his backups. In fact, Rudy told me a story that at a party they were playing, Ed blew a fuse in his main amp and did not have a backup and had to run home to get a fuse while the band was playing. After this he always made sure he had a backup.

“Rudy said the EQ pedal MXR 6-band was used only for certain guitars or sometimes when he used rental gear that sounded bad meaning NOT on VHI?!. Also the Univox echo located in the practice bomb! was patched in by hand for Eruption only, and then was taken out of the chain after.

“As time went on post-VHI, more cabs were used and so were more amps. The amps would only drive one cab, though.
“He did say Ed was always trying new things, but would always come back to this setup.

“This info follows everything Ed has ever said to me personally. Also, when ‘84 hit he changed his setup to H&H power amps and some different effects. He still used a cab off the head, though no load resistor. The Load resistor came for the 5150 tour.”
Last edited by ampdude on Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:12 pm

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3682&start=180

I think I deserve to have a chuckle (at least)... :lol:
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby ampdude on Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:37 pm

I don't know what your laughing about.
Usually sniggering types who don't try to work out anything themselves tend to laugh at wrong theories like schoolchildren.
Yep, that was all BS and i'll be the first to say it.

I did say
"The 1977 photo isn't definite proof but it looks like he is reamping."

"isn't definite proof"
"isn't definite proof"
"isn't definite proof"

There were slaving theories around, some from certain members here and I was putting some of that crap on that thread which I'll update now.
Thanks for reminding me.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:39 pm

jeez calm down you don't need to take everything so personally. Still think it's kind of funny but I wouldn't say I was "sniggering". Just with this brown sound business there seems to be so much BS, hearsay, etc. I do think it's good to have as close to firsthand accounts as possible (as seems to be the case with Racksystems/David Friedman).
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby cap10jack on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:51 pm

Many thanks for the replys and link guys.. Great reading and info...
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby WoodyTone on Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:29 pm

To the op, that link has some good info, some wrong, some mixed up EVH eras. In the clubs Ed APPEARS (no one but Ed knows for sure, it seems) to have used the Variac and lower-watt speakers to decrease his volume because (the article got this right) he liked to hear his amp dimed -- but aparently that's only one reason the controls were on 10. Arcane stuff!
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby redozzman on Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:54 pm

Im on the fence when it comes to the slaving vs. variaced plexi, but I will point out that there is a second picture from the same show that is posted above and in one of them you can clearly see the MXR 6band eq, so Ed was using that before japan and with his own gear. The picture is supposedly from the Pasadena Civic Center. I personally think the 6band eq has more to do with the gain on the first album than anything else. :wink: Maybe Rudy was thinking of the Boss Ge 10 eq's but look no further than the MXR 6 band if you want that VH1 Grind.



Here is the photo I was referring to.
Image
Image
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby cedarchoper58 on Mon May 03, 2010 2:36 pm

what is that bomb looking thing? :D
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Mon May 03, 2010 5:37 pm

if memory serves it was a practice bomb he used to house his tape delay unit
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Emerson Biggins on Sun May 09, 2010 12:19 am

Dai,, wouldnt it be funny if TT chimed in.. :mrgreen:
"Yesterday is history, and tomorrow is a mystery,, today is a gift - thats why they call it the present".
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Sun May 09, 2010 1:21 am

ya, too bad he doesn't hang here anymore.

you know, one thing I wonder (and that if anyone else finds it kind of funny) that some brown sound chasers today seem to have arrived at where Vic (apparently) was more than a decade ago. I don't think he ever came out and spelled out exactly, but from what I gather(I could be wrong), the modded SBass he was using to get the sound was a split cathode (converted) plus bigger PI output couplers (that is, 0.1uF which is normal for SB but larger than normal for the commonly observed split cathode lead amps), then that loaded by a Hot Plate, then "re-amped"(or "slaved" or however you want to put it) into a power amp and cab. Another thing, is that I wonder if what the people using this setup arrived at is an accurate sounding setup to the *sound on the album* as opposed to what it actually sounded like in person.
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