HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Gibson, Valco, Gretsch, and more

Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Unit_1 on Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:00 am

Torren61 wrote:
Unit_1 wrote:
Torren61 wrote:Plus, the speaker baffle doesn't look, to me, to be original.


that would explain a lot

mystery amp!!!!

does it work? :jam:


It explains that it looks to be a replacement speaker baffle so if we're just going to talk about the speaker baffle, it explains a lot.


It explains why it looks half home made half production
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Blind Lemon Chitlin on Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:04 am

There were several different companies that made amps in the very early days and even made them for Gibson. I have seen amps with the same back panel. Lyon & Healey was one company whoade for Gibson...also Sano mad some for Gretsch and Gibson. I cant think of the company that made the original "BR" amps for Gibson but that is also a possibility..
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:15 pm

The post-WWII Gibson BR series amps were designed ??and built?? by Chicago electronic design firm Barnes Reincke.
As far as I know, the GA amp that were introduced in the late '40's were in house Gibson products?????? Barnes Reincke also designed the BR lap steels....here is my BR-6...double bound.
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Although.....I once owned a 1960 DeArmond R-15 amp that sat beside my 1960 Gibson Ga-19RVT. The amps were identical but for the colors. The cabs were identical, the circuits were identical.....they looked and sounded like twins. This made me wonder if Gibson had an association with Rose Industries, which built the DeArmond products. :dunno: IF those two amps were not built in the same factory, then one of them was a direct clone of the other.
I think that..iirc....later Gibson amps were built by Magnavox????
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Dean Jr. wrote:Although.....I once owned a 1960 DeArmond R-15 amp that sat beside my 1960 Gibson Ga-19RVT. The amps were identical but for the colors. The cabs were identical, the circuits were identical.....they looked and sounded like twins. This made me wonder if Gibson had an association with Rose Industries, which built the DeArmond products. :dunno: IF those two amps were not built in the same factory, then one of them was a direct clone of the other.
I think that..iirc....later Gibson amps were built by Magnavox????


There's nothing similar between the circuit of a DeArmond R15 and a GA-19RVT.........at all. I've had both at the same time and they sound nothing alike. I still own an R15 and a Martin 112. Nothing sounds similar. Gibson amps: don't use the same tag board, don't use Pyramid caps, don't use the oversized Midwest Coil & Transformer iron and while the cab may look similar; the DeArmond is much sturdier. Let's not forget Rowe's use of the "inverter pac"; which was a packet of caps and resistors covered in a mylar coating. It was Rowe Industries, not "Rose" Industries. The DeArmond/Martin amps were not copies or "clones" of anything at the time.

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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:21 pm

slider313, well.....maybe my memory on the model number is incorrect. The amp I had had reverb and tremolo. The amp I had was exactly like the Gibson GA-19RVT...same board, same layout, same functions. I had the two chassi side by side.....there was no difference. I have seen a lot of Gibsons, and I was struck by what I saw when I opened up that DeArmond.....same amp....same construction techniques, and...same sounds. This was 20 years ago, and I don't have the pictures..except in my mind.
Either my DeArmond had a model number other than 'R15' or perhaps the R-15 you have there is an older model??? I don't know...and I apologize if I am incorrect in the model number. The amp was covered in a copper-colored tolex and had a copper-toned chassis....with reverb and tremolo. I sort of regret selling that one.....
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:19 pm

Dean Jr. wrote:slider313, well.....maybe my memory on the model number is incorrect. The amp I had had reverb and tremolo. The amp I had was exactly like the Gibson GA-19RVT...same board, same layout, same functions. I had the two chassi side by side.....there was no difference. I have seen a lot of Gibsons, and I was struck by what I saw when I opened up that DeArmond.....same amp....same construction techniques, and...same sounds. This was 20 years ago, and I don't have the pictures..except in my mind.
Either my DeArmond had a model number other than 'R15' or perhaps the R-15 you have there is an older model??? I don't know...and I apologize if I am incorrect in the model number. The amp was covered in a copper-colored tolex and had a copper-toned chassis....with reverb and tremolo. I sort of regret selling that one.....


There were no reverb versions of the original DeArmond or Martin amps produced by Rowe Industries. These amps were in full production for about two and a half years: 1959 through mid 1961. Some turned up in 1964, with mostly leftover parts, due to the demand for electric guitars and amps created by the arrival of the Beatles. These amps didn't sell well due to the cost being higher than most comparable amps at the time, but the build quality was much better than most and the transformers were oversized. The output transformer is about the size of a blackface Bassman's. I consider them to be the first "boutique" amps ever built. The amp you had was clearly not built by DeArmond Rowe if the circuit was identical to the GA-19RVT. Maybe you had an early version of the Epiphone Pathfinder EA-28RVT. Some Epi's had tan tolex.


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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:40 pm

Nope...DeArmond written upon the amp...identical circuit, same speaker...same cab. NOw....maybe I am mistaken about the amps having reverb, but I had GA-20's and GA-19's....reverb and trem models at that time. Alvin Crow bought one of the tweed Gibsons. ....but I surely am thinking that it had both reverb and tremolo. There is no doubt in my mind that the circuit boards were identical...and nothing like the picture above. I have owned too many Gibsons not to have been struck by that type of construction when I pulled the back panel off of the DeArmond. The cab was exactly the same dimensions and cuts...same angled baffleboards....
Whatever.....I can't prove it with pics, so it didn't exist, right? I remember sitting with a friend looking at both amps' boards and listening to them and comparing.....
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:03 am

Yeah, if the build was identical to a Gibson, then it wasn't a DeArmond at all. I've seen folks put Fender logo's on all kinds of amps. Maybe someone did just that. In this age of massive amounts of information, I think a photo of one would have turned up by now. As I stated, Rowe Industries' build quality was much better than any Gibson. This is the Martin 112, which is exactly the same as the R15 save the cosmetics.
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:55 pm

Here's a chassis shot of a DeArmond R15T. The use of the mylar covered "inverter pacs" was something I haven't seen in any other builds. Perhaps that's where Dumble got the idea to cover some of his circuitry?
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:03 pm

The color of the cab covering and the chassis was identical to the amp in your last pics, but the circuitry was done in a different manner. IT had DeArmond logo and info on it....Rowe Industry just as on the amp above. I wish I had pics.....
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:02 pm

Dean Jr. wrote:The color of the cab covering and the chassis was identical to the amp in your last pics, but the circuitry was done in a different manner. IT had DeArmond logo and info on it....Rowe Industry just as on the amp above. I wish I had pics.....


Not impossible, but I've never seen one; or even a picture of one. Rowe may have parted out left over chassis's and cabinets by the mid 1960's. In any case, it wouldn't have been a true DeArmond Rowe build as the amps mentioned were only made for two and a half years, never had reverb and had more in common with tweed Fender circuits at the time.
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:19 pm

The fellow who bought the amp was passing through.....from California, iirc. If it were still in the area, I would get back in touch with it. As it is....without pics I can't prove anything, can I? This was pre-digital camera days, and I don't recall documenting it with a film camera. IT is the only DeArmond that has come into my arena.
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby slider313 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:29 pm

Yeah.......pics would be nice. :cheers:
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Re: HELP! Can you identify this amp?

Postby Dean Jr. on Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:16 pm

:cheers: :jam: :thumbsup:
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