__EVH early sound

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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Emerson Biggins on Sun May 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Dai wrote:ya, too bad he doesn't hang here anymore.

you know, one thing I wonder (and that if anyone else finds it kind of funny) that some brown sound chasers today seem to have arrived at where Vic (apparently) was more than a decade ago. I don't think he ever came out and spelled out exactly, but from what I gather(I could be wrong), the modded SBass he was using to get the sound was a split cathode (converted) plus bigger PI output couplers (that is, 0.1uF which is normal for SB but larger than normal for the commonly observed split cathode lead amps), then that loaded by a Hot Plate, then "re-amped"(or "slaved" or however you want to put it) into a power amp and cab. Another thing, is that I wonder if what the people using this setup arrived at is an accurate sounding setup to the *sound on the album* as opposed to what it actually sounded like in person.


as I understand it, his live sound was WAY brighter than the album stuff.. i dunno.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Sun May 09, 2010 1:17 pm

well the gear had some influence but mainly I'd say it was him that made it special
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby classalpha on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:20 am

... there are lots of "brown sound"-chasers online... but none of them gets the EQ or gain just right... it's either mid-scooped to H*ll... or too muddy and/or too saturated. I won't even get into the usual delay/reverb/chorus overkill either.... :roll:

Ed's tone always had heavy mids... but it was never woolly... the gain was incredibly dynamic too - when he turned the guitar's (Frankie's or the Destroyer's) volume down it cleaned up bright... w/ the guitar volume opened up full the high end softened and the gain peaked at the point just before it got fizzy... or sounding like an electric kazoo...

I think the hardest version of the brown sound to nail down correctly is the tone Ed got on the Star Fleet sessions - there it is raw and organic... amp gain wasn't nearly as saturated as it was on any of the previous VH albums... not much sustain... also not much for ambiance except for some very subtle room reverb and a light slap back echo on the title cut...
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby wntbtw on Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:50 am

FWIW I think this guy [Mark] does a pretty good job of 'nailing' Eddie Van Halen`s tone.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=503988
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:03 pm

classalpha wrote: I think the hardest version of the brown sound to nail down correctly is the tone Ed got on the Star Fleet sessions - there it is raw and organic... amp gain wasn't nearly as saturated as it was on any of the previous VH albums... not much sustain... also not much for ambiance except for some very subtle room reverb and a light slap back echo on the title cut...


been a really long time since I read about this (so I could be off, but) I think he used a different amp on that one (maybe a JCM800--Guitar World article???). Also the sound seemed to be really bright (at least as far as I can remember when listening).
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby classalpha on Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:23 pm

Dai wrote:
classalpha wrote: I think the hardest version of the brown sound to nail down correctly is the tone Ed got on the Star Fleet sessions - there it is raw and organic... amp gain wasn't nearly as saturated as it was on any of the previous VH albums... not much sustain... also not much for ambiance except for some very subtle room reverb and a light slap back echo on the title cut...


been a really long time since I read about this (so I could be off, but) I think he used a different amp on that one (maybe a JCM800--Guitar World article???). Also the sound seemed to be really bright (at least as far as I can remember when listening).
... dunno about Star Fleet... but Ed DID use "JCM 800" heads on the 5150/OU812 tours... BUT.. and that's a BIG BUTT... those were not typical Master Volume JCMs (i.e. 2203s) but rather four-input, metal panel 100w 1959s w/ JCM 800 imprinted on the front. I believe those JCM-800 heads had also been modded to sound like his Holy Grail '68 Plexi Super Bass as well...
Last edited by classalpha on Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby classalpha on Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:29 pm

wntbtw wrote:FWIW I think this guy [Mark] does a pretty good job of 'nailing' Eddie Van Halen`s tone.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=503988
.. I'm quite familiar w/ Mark's, Ralle's and Strat78's versions of the "brown shound"... they were who I was originally referring to ... :P
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby stratvox on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:39 pm

DUMB QUESTION Can someone please educate me on why running an amp at lower voltages through a variac would cause tubes to fail prematurely? I am not an engineer and am pretty much scared to death of electricity but wouldnt it make sense that if less voltage were flowing the tubes would not be taxed as hard?
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Dai on Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:46 am

dunno if they would fail outright but AFAIK that will cause accelerated aging since along with the B+(high voltage) dropping, the heater voltage drops (otherwise I'd say you are right in your thinking). If it's off a bit lower, might help with life, but beyond a certain way it's detrimental. (The voltage is applied to the heater which raises the temp. of the cathode and this appears to be designed to work best within a certain range and this is affected by the voltage.) I would try searching, googling if you want a more thorough in-depth explanation.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby WoodyTone on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:57 pm

wntbtw wrote:FWIW I think this guy [Mark] does a pretty good job of 'nailing' Eddie Van Halen`s tone.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=503988


He absolutely does, and that's w/out a Variac (I believe) or any Don Landee/Sunset help. Good stuff!
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby motrock on Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:12 pm

I would like to throw my latest attempt in to the mix:

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/94-DaveVariplex.mp3

Blankenship Variplex w/ a Hammond OT
Frankenstein Clone(Northern Hard Ash Body), w/ MotorCity Pickups custom 8.5k PAF
homemade 1969 Marshall 4x12 clone w/ 25 year old Greenbacks(6402 cones)
Universal Audio SOLO 610 Mic Pre

The amp was all on 10, NO ATTENUATION... rippin loud!

I am going to do another clip with my EP-Booster pedal and my 1980 MXR 6 Band Blue EQ. But.. its pretty darn close without all the other stuff. Just guitar, amp, and speakers. What do you guys think?
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Mats A on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:25 am

redozzman wrote:Im on the fence when it comes to the slaving vs. variaced plexi, but I will point out that there is a second picture from the same show that is posted above and in one of them you can clearly see the MXR 6band eq, so Ed was using that before japan and with his own gear. The picture is supposedly from the Pasadena Civic Center. I personally think the 6band eq has more to do with the gain on the first album than anything else. :wink: Maybe Rudy was thinking of the Boss Ge 10 eq's but look no further than the MXR 6 band if you want that VH1 Grind.



Here is the photo I was referring to.
Image

Where is that second picture? I´d love to see it!
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Mats A on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:29 am

redozzman wrote:Im on the fence when it comes to the slaving vs. variaced plexi, but I will point out that there is a second picture from the same show that is posted above and in one of them you can clearly see the MXR 6band eq, so Ed was using that before japan and with his own gear. The picture is supposedly from the Pasadena Civic Center. I personally think the 6band eq has more to do with the gain on the first album than anything else. :wink: Maybe Rudy was thinking of the Boss Ge 10 eq's but look no further than the MXR 6 band if you want that VH1 Grind.



Here is the photo I was referring to.
Image

If he had used a MXR 6 Band EQ set up for mid boost as i´ve seen on a picture it would have sounded pretty nasal. Almost like Tom Scholtz in Boston. I doubt he used that. I´ve listened to lots of older recordings with Van Halen and his tone sounds prety normal like what you get on a crancked Plexi.
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby power lover on Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:59 am

you know this forum's back in business when thread's like this show up and a new crop of gmen want to learn how to get early ed tone. the indians where right, life really is like a wheel! I get it with a stock split cathode plexi/metal panel into a cab of old greenbacks. pretty simple. you can use variac I sometimes do around 100v to 110 below that is not good for tone or the amp and not needed to get his tones. to get his base tone, you don't need any pedals either, but if you do a echoplex and a mxr will serve that purpose. no eq needed
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Re: __EVH early sound

Postby Michael R/T on Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:24 pm

I like to try getting this sound with a Major, works for me. :)

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