1960 Tweed Tremolux

Bandmaster, Bassman, Champ, Concert, Deluxe, Harvard, Princeton, Pro, Super, Tremolux, Twin, Vibrasonic, Vibrolux, Vibroverb and others

1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby Rasmus-Skov on Thu May 18, 2017 10:35 am

Hey Guys!

I'm looking at a 1960 Tweed Tremolux 5G9 (I think).

The box is in great condition, but the guts has had some "improvements" made. (pics are coming)

The speaker seems to be original, and so does the transformers. Since I'm in Europe an step down transformer has been installed at the bottom for the cabinet. Tweed on upper back panel has been changed and is missing on the bottom. A bit dusty on the bottom as You can see on the last picture.

The owner has had it for 20 years, and has done nothing to it.

It seems to be a little too "clean" sounding, and not that howlin' and loud as tweeds normally are. (I own 2 tweed Harvards.) I'm thinking about selling one of them to fund this.

Alot of the yellow Astrons have been changed to some big blue WIMA caps. And the tubes, I don't know how they're doing.

Is it possible to bring this baby back to "factory specs" and sound? It has that unmistakenly amazing tweed sound, but I have the feeling something aint quite right.

The seller is letting me borrow it next week, so I can take it to tech. :jam:

Price? Range are these in right now?

PICS:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Rasmus-Skov
Certified
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby eolon on Thu May 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Nice amp! It is difficult to qualify "tone" via a text description. The first place I would start is the tubes; check them and make sure they are all good. Then check the bias - this will have a big effect on tone of the amp. I would also check your power to the original transformer. If your step-down transformer is supplying 115 to 122 VAC, and is sized correctly for current, you are probably OK, although the closer you can get to 115 VAC the better. The input voltage will determine the DC voltages in the rest of the circuit, so changing your input voltage will change the bias.

Check the Selenium diode, they are not reliable, and you may want to replace it with a silicon diode and a resistor.

Check the capacitors, especially the electrolytics, although in this case it doesn't appear to be a problem. The big WIMA caps aren't a problem if they are in spec. and not leaky.

I really suspect that the bias setting of the output tubes is where you will get the biggest change to the tone you are looking for, but, of course, it's hard to say without hearing the amp.

Best Regards,

Don
eolon
Peasant
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:55 am
Location: Ohio

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby OldSchoolDave on Thu May 18, 2017 7:46 pm

Rasmus-Skov wrote:Alot of the yellow Astrons have been changed to some big blue WIMA caps.


As I understand it, those yellow Astrons did have a tendancy to drift over time. So, I'm not surprised to see so many replaced. We don't see those big blue WIMA caps much on this side of the pond, so I don't know how they compare. I do know that Sozo makes some replicas of the Blue Molded caps that replaced the yellow Astrons after the tweed era. And, of course, their Mustard replicas ain't bad either...

Beautiful amp! Hope you can get it dialed in to your tastes.

Dave
...Hey! I played that song when it was new...
.
http://www.OldSchoolDave.com
OldSchoolDave
Prince
 
Posts: 4188
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: HP, NC USA

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby stratele52 on Thu May 18, 2017 8:19 pm

" Is it possible to bring this baby back to "factory specs" and sound? It has that unmistakenly amazing tweed sound, but I have the feeling something aint quite right "

Good question . I heard many vintage amp all originals and some sound very good, some good.

High end caps like SoZo may help. The are close to original mustard caps.
Better filter caps like F & T. I did not trust those Taiwan made I see
Output Transformer may be out of specs.
Voltages in the amp may be to high, wall outlet in '60 was 110 volts in USA . If your step down convert 240 to 120 , ( today North America voltage) + power transformer out of specs= ? volts.

Only a rebuild by a somebody know vintage amp will tell you, you can't be sure before.
stratele52
Knight
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Québec province, Canada

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby pdf64 on Thu May 18, 2017 8:26 pm

WIMA FKP1 look to be very high spec caps http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/440/WIMA_FKP_1-11422.pdf
From the schematic though, I wonder why there's 5 the same size (and so presumably the same cap value)?
http://schems.com/schematicheaven.net/manu/fender/tremolux_5e9a_schem.pdf
Comparing the photos of the amp's board to the layout, there look to be a lot of mods.
But at least the bias supply rectifier is now a silicon type.
My band:-http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand
pdf64
Knight
 
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Staffordshire UK

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby stratele52 on Thu May 18, 2017 11:24 pm

Caps do not need to have hight specs, just sound good.
stratele52
Knight
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Québec province, Canada

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby spidey66 on Fri May 19, 2017 2:20 am

As others have stated it is hard to say what this amp will do once you go through it and get it back into spec.
I have a June 1960 5G9 and it is my favorite Fender (and I've owned or played through just about every Fender, and was a Fender dealer/factory authorized service center for many years). If the price is right grab it.
As for the step down +1 on keeping as close to 110-115 VAC. I run mine on a variac at 110 VAC US and that is where the magic seems to happen once you rev the amp up a bit.
Really the perfect sized tweed.
Just enough clean head room to play with a drummer, but roars when pushed hard, but holds up unlike a Deluxe.
Good Luck!
spidey66
Certified
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:14 am

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby Rasmus-Skov on Fri May 19, 2017 9:10 am

Hey Guys!

Thanks for all your replies!

pdf64 wrote:WIMA FKP1 look to be very high spec caps http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/440/WIMA_FKP_1-11422.pdf
From the schematic though, I wonder why there's 5 the same size (and so presumably the same cap value)?
http://schems.com/schematicheaven.net/manu/fender/tremolux_5e9a_schem.pdf
Comparing the photos of the amp's board to the layout, there look to be a lot of mods.
But at least the bias supply rectifier is now a silicon type.


It's probably because it's a 5G9 and not a 5E9-A, as the paper tag says.
But I don't know.

stratele52 wrote:" Is it possible to bring this baby back to "factory specs" and sound? It has that unmistakenly amazing tweed sound, but I have the feeling something aint quite right "

Good question . I heard many vintage amp all originals and some sound very good, some good.

High end caps like SoZo may help. The are close to original mustard caps.
Better filter caps like F & T. I did not trust those Taiwan made I see
Output Transformer may be out of specs.
Voltages in the amp may be to high, wall outlet in '60 was 110 volts in USA . If your step down convert 240 to 120 , ( today North America voltage) + power transformer out of specs= ? volts.

Only a rebuild by a somebody know vintage amp will tell you, you can't be sure before.


I will take it to a tech and make him look it over. He has built alot of tweed clones, and services alot of vintage amps.

spidey66 wrote:As others have stated it is hard to say what this amp will do once you go through it and get it back into spec.
I have a June 1960 5G9 and it is my favorite Fender (and I've owned or played through just about every Fender, and was a Fender dealer/factory authorized service center for many years). If the price is right grab it.
As for the step down +1 on keeping as close to 110-115 VAC. I run mine on a variac at 110 VAC US and that is where the magic seems to happen once you rev the amp up a bit.
Really the perfect sized tweed.
Just enough clean head room to play with a drummer, but roars when pushed hard, but holds up unlike a Deluxe.
Good Luck!


Thanks! If the price is right.... its around $2900. Which is alot of money, but I see them listed at higher prices on Reverb and Ebay and such.
I just want to make sure that the "services" made to the amp is not dragging the value too much down.
Tweed amps are quite rare in Denmark, so the prices are high. Lucky for me if I wanna sell my '57 Harvard.
Rasmus-Skov
Certified
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby Rasmus-Skov on Fri May 19, 2017 9:10 am

Hey Guys!

Thanks for all your replies!

pdf64 wrote:WIMA FKP1 look to be very high spec caps http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/440/WIMA_FKP_1-11422.pdf
From the schematic though, I wonder why there's 5 the same size (and so presumably the same cap value)?
http://schems.com/schematicheaven.net/manu/fender/tremolux_5e9a_schem.pdf
Comparing the photos of the amp's board to the layout, there look to be a lot of mods.
But at least the bias supply rectifier is now a silicon type.


It's probably because it's a 5G9 and not a 5E9-A, as the paper tag says.
But I don't know.

stratele52 wrote:" Is it possible to bring this baby back to "factory specs" and sound? It has that unmistakenly amazing tweed sound, but I have the feeling something aint quite right "

Good question . I heard many vintage amp all originals and some sound very good, some good.

High end caps like SoZo may help. The are close to original mustard caps.
Better filter caps like F & T. I did not trust those Taiwan made I see
Output Transformer may be out of specs.
Voltages in the amp may be to high, wall outlet in '60 was 110 volts in USA . If your step down convert 240 to 120 , ( today North America voltage) + power transformer out of specs= ? volts.

Only a rebuild by a somebody know vintage amp will tell you, you can't be sure before.


I will take it to a tech and make him look it over. He has built alot of tweed clones, and services alot of vintage amps.

spidey66 wrote:As others have stated it is hard to say what this amp will do once you go through it and get it back into spec.
I have a June 1960 5G9 and it is my favorite Fender (and I've owned or played through just about every Fender, and was a Fender dealer/factory authorized service center for many years). If the price is right grab it.
As for the step down +1 on keeping as close to 110-115 VAC. I run mine on a variac at 110 VAC US and that is where the magic seems to happen once you rev the amp up a bit.
Really the perfect sized tweed.
Just enough clean head room to play with a drummer, but roars when pushed hard, but holds up unlike a Deluxe.
Good Luck!


Thanks! If the price is right.... its around $2900. Which is alot of money, but I see them listed at higher prices on Reverb and Ebay and such.
I just want to make sure that the "services" made to the amp is not dragging the value too much down.
Tweed amps are quite rare in Denmark, so the prices are high. Lucky for me if I wanna sell my '57 Harvard.
Rasmus-Skov
Certified
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby stratele52 on Fri May 19, 2017 9:36 am

$2900 non original and it sound not very good to you !

I will not buy it.

Takes it for granted that it will not sound better after a visit to the technician.
Would you buy it as it is?
stratele52
Knight
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Québec province, Canada

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby pdf64 on Fri May 19, 2017 12:28 pm

Maybe your tech could build you a 'no expense spared' tweed clone of your choice for a lot less than that?
Or a Victoria etc boutique clone may be cheaper?
My band:-http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand
pdf64
Knight
 
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:55 am
Location: Staffordshire UK

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby stratele52 on Fri May 19, 2017 1:39 pm

A original tweed amp is not same as a clone if you are a collector, for a player a clone is a better deal.

$1400.00

https://reverb.com/ca/item/741218-handw ... ered-tweed
stratele52
Knight
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Québec province, Canada

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby Rasmus-Skov on Fri May 19, 2017 6:26 pm

stratele52 wrote:$2900 non original and it sound not very good to you !

I will not buy it.

Takes it for granted that it will not sound better after a visit to the technician.
Would you buy it as it is?


Nothing is agreed yet, but I know he won't budge on the price, but maybe he will pay for a check-up.

Sound wise it wasn't bad, but it didn't really distort the way you would expect when you dial a tweed to 10.

I see your point, but after I got my 1956 Harvard in 2014 I have played 80% of my gigs on that. I just need a bit more headroom to reach ultimate awesomeness.

stratele52 wrote:A original tweed amp is not same as a clone if you are a collector, for a player a clone is a better deal.

$1400.00

https://reverb.com/ca/item/741218-handw ... ered-tweed


I have compared good 5E3 clones to my Harvards, and it's just not anything near it. I even played my 57 Harvard trough the clone cabinet, and suddenly it sounded all dull.

So actually the 10" original Jensen in the Harvard cab sounded bigger and more open than the clone cab with a 12" cab.

Call it mojo, or whatever, but both my Harvards sound more 3D compared to any newer amp I've tried! But it must be a combination of wood, speaker and amp. Since my Harvard sounded dull trough the new clone cab. Dunno if it's glue, or dense wood or something. It was an expensive fingerjoint cab. Thicker wood maybe.

I did a few years of gigging with a new Blues Junior III with an old greenback g12m. It was fine, but I never had that great sound as I have now.

I have bigger amps, but they're only good for festivals.

I'll report in next week when I get the amp home.
Rasmus-Skov
Certified
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby stratele52 on Fri May 19, 2017 7:21 pm

+1

A original vintage amp is a lot better than a clone
stratele52
Knight
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:35 am
Location: Québec province, Canada

Re: 1960 Tweed Tremolux

Postby Dean Jr. on Fri May 19, 2017 8:28 pm

That is a 5G9 Tremolux....the fixed bias circuit gives it away. there is a modern diode replacement for the silicon diode.
IT is visible on the edge of the photo that shows us the fixed biasing. Nice amp. IF the speaker is original...the date codes will tell you that....the amp is imho a desirable amp that is above 'player' condition. The step down tranny is not a big problem for you and the market there, I would think...especially if a person wanted to play the amp, right. IT might be considered an asset. Your tech will fill you in. This amp is not like a 5E3 due to the biasing....fixed versus cathode. IT also has a long tail pair phase inverter versus the cathodyne of the 5E3 Deluxe. This amp is moving in the direction toward the Fenders of the 1960's....bigger and cleaner.....even with the 6V6's.
Dean Jr.
Page
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:59 pm

Next

Return to Fender

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests