Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Some like 'em and some don't, but I bet everyone has at least a couple — Analog Delay, Digital Delay, Reverb, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Tube Overdrive, Transistor Overdrive, Fuzz, Octave Fuzz, Tremolo, Vibrato, Compressor and the list goes on!

Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby loylo on Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:16 pm

You can post pics of the heads end the disc surface to see if they're in good shape.
On my echorec, I needed to relap the heads because there were multiple signs of wear.

I have an interesting document about that:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=29KY5HY0

Here are a pic of one of my playback head.
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Despite the luminosity, you can see that the surface of the core is no longer regular.
I have relapped all of them, but as you can see in the nortronic document, the risk of relapping consist in the widening of the gap if the wear is too important.


Here is also a pic of my magnetic disc.
Image
Despite it is perfectly clean, you can easily see wear due to the friction of the head against its surface. It alters the quality of the magnetic recording and reading, and so the sound and the ability of self oscillating.

I've forgotten to answer your question about the localisation of the recording head on the schematic. It is the resistor symbol referenced as "TR", between the two halves of the ECC82. The reading heads are referenced as "TA" near the four triodes 1-2 A-B. :wink:
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby LongerDelay on Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:32 am

Ok. Here are pictures of the heads and disc. I noticed the dirt as I was taking the pictures. I have since cleaned the heads and disc again, very thoroughly. Please comment on the quality of these:

Image

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You can see the discoloration in the bands around the disc. When I run my finger around it, it feels perfectly smooth.
Image

Let me know what you think!
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Infinite Repeats!

Postby LongerDelay on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:48 pm

After I posted the pictures of the heads I noticed the record head looked very worn. I swapped it out with a better record head from another Echorec. The I spent several hours adjusting the record head and playback head #4. I now have infinite repeats when using head 4. I noticed that the echoes are not clear as Loylo described, they are very muddy, even distorted. Also, higher frequencies don't repeat infinitely (although they do repeat a lot). I posted an audio recording on YouTube. Please check this out and let me know what you think about the quality of repeats and how to improve, if possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llJ550QPN6s

Also, it seems like I am getting 250ms of delay on playback head number 4 not 300ms. Is this head spacing? Motor speed? I would like to slow this down to the 320-360ms I have read about with the Echorec.

Thanks
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby loylo on Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:14 am

Hi Longerdelay,

It seems to me that most of your magnetic heads are very worned out!
And the triangle-like wear on heads number 2, 4 and 5 tends to prove they weren't correctly adjusted (now you may have set them correctly).
You really need to relap all of them.

The disc seems to be in good shape.

For your last request, I don't really know. I'll have a look at your video. But distortion and muddyness can come from the bad quality of the heads and bad settings of the head against the disc. It is really a mess to set the heads correctly. Here is an interesting link to read:
http://www.churchsoundcheck.com/tra.html

What I can also tell is that as you slow down the motor speed, it alters the high frequencies. So It would increase your problem.
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby Anchorman on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:26 pm

Okay, I have replaced the choke with a 5W resistor, RC-filter instead of LC-filter. What's strange though, is that before I replaced the choke the transformer output voltage was around 250V between the two purple wires (correct according to schematic), now I read 30-40V between them. So now that I have voltage entering the circuit, it is far lower than it should be. What might explain this? My progress is very slow since I need to order new parts all the time then wait for them to arrive to continue. Cheers!
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby arnaud762002 on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 pm

hi !

i've just bought my binson echorec 2 but i 've discovered that there are geloso plugs on it ! :(

do you know where i could buy some geloso / jack 3.5 cables ? it would help, can't wait to try my binson !!!!

thanks for your answers
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby jtaylor on Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:34 am

I also just got an echorec. I have rewired the unit, but now the transformer is smoking. I'm planning to breakdown the power section and test the volts on the leads from the power trans without a load. my thought is if the volts are good I know it's not the trans. but if the trans still smokes I know the trans is garbage. also does anyone have the service manual for this thing. last why does the schematic show the motor direct fromt he plug, but there are caps between the neg lead and the motor? jt
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby Noel on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:58 pm

That thing is COOL! As a kid, we had this old Grudig real-to-real home recorder. Kinda reminds me of that. I used to plug my Strat into it.
Curious, how does a Binson compare to an Echoplex?
1976 Ibanez Destroyer with routed Floyd Rose
2009 Carvin CS6C (Floyd Rose)
1974 Gibson LP Special 55
1987 Laney Pro Tube 30 Wt Head
1986 Keith Reinneger Reinowatt 50 (hot rodded 2204 Circuit)
1974 Orange 4x12 with 2 Weber Silver Bells and 2 Weber-reconed H30 55hz
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby jtaylor on Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:34 pm

I just grabbed an echorec on ebay so I'll have to compare when two things happen. 1. I get the echoplex in the mail, and 2. I get this binson working. I have a tech question. I replaced all wires in my echorec. I traced the smoking transformer to a short in the 4,5 htr pin on tube 5 grounded out. fixed it. then I hooked the secondaries to the rectifier...result: smoke from the 4.7K 1W power resistor between the 2 filter caps. well I have tested the secondaries with without anything connected 250ish vAC . through the rectofier 250ish vdc. after the first filtercap/choke...350+ vdc. It's supposed to be 280vdc. no wonder the the power resister is smoking. Now the question. can a bad cap cause the voltage to jump to 350? I don't think the choke would have anything to do with it, but am I wrong...could the choke be part of the issue? The only thing I can think is that the cap was replaced with the wrong value, but the inside of this echorec looked like nobody ever did anything to help it. it's really wierd. bragging rights to anyone who can figure it out. jt
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby Anchorman on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:34 pm

jtaylor wrote:I just grabbed an echorec on ebay so I'll have to compare when two things happen. 1. I get the echoplex in the mail, and 2. I get this binson working. I have a tech question. I replaced all wires in my echorec. I traced the smoking transformer to a short in the 4,5 htr pin on tube 5 grounded out. fixed it. then I hooked the secondaries to the rectifier...result: smoke from the 4.7K 1W power resistor between the 2 filter caps. well I have tested the secondaries with without anything connected 250ish vAC . through the rectofier 250ish vdc. after the first filtercap/choke...350+ vdc. It's supposed to be 280vdc. no wonder the the power resister is smoking. Now the question. can a bad cap cause the voltage to jump to 350? I don't think the choke would have anything to do with it, but am I wrong...could the choke be part of the issue? The only thing I can think is that the cap was replaced with the wrong value, but the inside of this echorec looked like nobody ever did anything to help it. it's really wierd. bragging rights to anyone who can figure it out. jt


Okay, first of all, everything I say i speculation, I have way to little experience to give a good answer :)
I don't think it's the choke, it's there just for filtering the signal. I don't think it could increase the voltage in this case. If memory serves me right, I actually also measured ca. 350V on the first cap after the choke, before I changed the cap. Try changing it (caps are pretty cheap) and see what happens.
I'm currently away from home until December so I can't look at my unit right now unfortunately.
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby jtaylor on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:45 am

I have stopped the smoking pwr R. Now I have a dry signal passing but no echo. can someone measuer the voltage on their record head and is that a AC or DC?
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Re: Binson Echorec 2 has landed

Postby blacksheep on Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:33 pm

The drum on my B2 is in great shape with the exception of one scratch on the magnetic strip. Does anyone know if you can gently polish scratches out by hand or if you just have to get the entire drum rewound?
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