Binson Echorec Restoration

Some like 'em and some don't, but I bet everyone has at least a couple — Analog Delay, Digital Delay, Reverb, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Tube Overdrive, Transistor Overdrive, Fuzz, Octave Fuzz, Tremolo, Vibrato, Compressor and the list goes on!

Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:22 pm

wsuran wrote:Hey Guys, this is a fascinating thread! I just bought one from spain and it arrived yesterday morning. there's no corrosion within and overall amazing shape. Just need to pick up a power converter as I'm located within the US in Brooklyn. All the best, Bill



Congratulations Bill! You don't need any power converter. You may need a plug adaptor depending on the cable.
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:49 pm

Clanger wrote:Whilst this thread is up, perhaps I could derail for just a moment. Could someone suggest the name of, and/or source of the two pin power connection used for these, I need one for my unit; Thanks!
Image


The connector is "compatible" with the CEE 7/16 Europlug. I say compatible as the standard dates 1963 and some Echorecs units are older. However that's the reference format for the Echorec2. The problem is that you need an extruded female connector that fits the recessed area around the two pins on the Binson panel. Any extension chord you find today seems to have recessed female connectors, so they won't fit firmly (or won't fit at all).

The solution I suggest is to get an adaptor like this:

http://www.alpha-crucis.com/en/connecto ... 09902.html

or like this if you are located in US:

http://lightake.com/detail.do/sku.EU_to ... ter_-25520


Note how the back of both is compatible with the two pins of the europlug. Fit one of these adapter on a common extension chord (maybe secure it with a drop of glue so that it doesn't get lost) and you're done with you new Echorec cable.

I'd recommend to buy at a local shop so that you can measure the external dimensions of the adapter (pins are no problem but the plastic container may not fit).
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:21 pm

WBAudio wrote:Work done! Finish rewiring the motor and finally unmasked the problem of the 400Ohms recording head.


You made it! Your dedication to this restoration has been impressive, you made it at last. Well done!


Time to put it back in its case and say good by to this beauty.


Be sure to take some final pictures and, if you want to provide some reference to your shop (here or in PM) that would be great. I'm collecting some notes about a couple of repair services that have proved expertize about the Echorec, in order to include them later in the Echorec Bible service section..
Image AudioExMachina's Echorec Bible: visit the complete Binson Echorec catalog at http://audioexmachina.wordpress.com/the-audioexmachinas-echorec-bible/
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby Clanger on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:37 pm

audioexmachina wrote:
Clanger wrote:Whilst this thread is up, perhaps I could derail for just a moment. Could someone suggest the name of, and/or source of the two pin power connection used for these, I need one for my unit; Thanks!
Image


The connector is "compatible" with the CEE 7/16 Europlug. I say compatible as the standard dates 1963 and some Echorecs units are older. However that's the reference format for the Echorec2. The problem is that you need an extruded female connector that fits the recessed area around the two pins on the Binson panel. Any extension chord you find today seems to have recessed female connectors, so they won't fit firmly (or won't fit at all).

The solution I suggest is to get an adaptor like this:

http://www.alpha-crucis.com/en/connecto ... 09902.html

or like this if you are located in US:

http://lightake.com/detail.do/sku.EU_to ... ter_-25520


Note how the back of both is compatible with the two pins of the europlug. Fit one of these adapter on a common extension chord (maybe secure it with a drop of glue so that it doesn't get lost) and you're done with you new Echorec cable.

I'd recommend to buy at a local shop so that you can measure the external dimensions of the adapter (pins are no problem but the plastic container may not fit).


Thanks for the help Mr Exmachina. :thumbsup:
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby WBAudio on Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:51 pm

Thank you Audioexmachina, I really appreciate your support and all the good hints you gave me to restore the Binson. Lucky I might keep feeding this post with a new Binson that might be on its way to my workbench, we'll see.
Got no web about my shop but just a recent blog I update whenever I can, it is a good way to contact me and see the new stuff coming out: http://whiteboxeraudio.blogspot.com.es/
I will post some last pics of the Binson and might upload some sound files to the blog. It will be a pleasure to appear in Echorec Bible service section!
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:40 pm

WBAudio wrote:Thank you Audioexmachina, I really appreciate your support and all the good hints you gave me to restore the Binson. Lucky I might keep feeding this post with a new Binson that might be on its way to my workbench, we'll see.
Got no web about my shop but just a recent blog I update whenever I can, it is a good way to contact me and see the new stuff coming out: http://whiteboxeraudio.blogspot.com.es/
I will post some last pics of the Binson and might upload some sound files to the blog. It will be a pleasure to appear in Echorec Bible service section!


I visited your blog, nice Echorec pictures and audio samples, great job.

I'm wondering if you grounded the IEC socket and, in case, where, on the chassis, you connected the ground pin cable. Can you give more details on this please?

If you look at the left side of the voltage sector (left side panel) there a small female plug. This was the orginal grounding point: you had a two-pin AC cable for the mains plug AND a separate one-pin ground cable. Most Echorec2 exhibit a ground icon there, so users can easily tell what it's inteded for. The icon was not present on the Echorec1 TE5 series and early Echorec2 TE5 series, but the ground plug was already there. Nowadays this grounding plug is mostly unused as it isn't convenient to run a separate cable for grounding.


Sent a PM too.
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby Jordane38 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:41 pm

I've got the same problem with a Binson B2,(i rewired it this summer, change all the fawlty parts ect ect ) not a lot of repetitions, and no socilation, the record head was bad, i replaced it, now i got more repetitions, but the echo is distorted, and the is still no oscilations.
How do you align the head properly?I've done it to day, but i think i've done it the wrong way...
I have a couple of bad resistors,(i keep a few original parts wich were tested good when the unit was unpluged, but when it's working these resistors are showing weird reading) too
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby Jordane38 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:42 pm

I've got the same problem with a Binson B2,(i rewired it this summer, change all the fawlty parts ect ect ) not a lot of repetitions, and no socilation, the record head was bad, i replaced it, now i got more repetitions, but the echo is distorted, and the is still no oscilations.
How do you align the head properly?I've done it to day, but i think i've done it the wrong way...
I have a couple of bad resistors,(i keep a few original parts wich were tested good when the unit was unpluged, but when it's working these resistors are showing weird reading) too
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:32 am

Jordane38 wrote:I've got the same problem with a Binson B2,(i rewired it this summer, change all the fawlty parts ect ect ) not a lot of repetitions, and no socilation, the record head was bad, i replaced it, now i got more repetitions, but the echo is distorted, and the is still no oscilations.


Firstly, are you 100% sure that you mounted an head for tube units? Did you measure DC resistance of the new recording head? In case, would you report its value here please?
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby frenchyinmunich on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:27 pm

Hi,

Speaking about the Binson Echorec, do you notice a really big difference between the tube and transistor version?
As soon that your audio goes into a console, it goes into a real big cascade of transistor...
As soon as you use a digital equipment, effect, convertissor, the signal goes thru a even worse sampling process...
What does a binson transistor unit, do you really know...
It only sums the different signal heads.
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby frenchyinmunich on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:32 pm

audioexmachina wrote:
Clanger wrote:Good Reply Mr exMachina.

Talking of values, I'm a bit out of the loop. I have one just like this, but in French. It needs work but what do you think it would be worth in good order?

Also I have a PE603T in good order, which I assume is worth a fair bit.

Regards Clanger.



The french version is interesting too.

The italian version is iconic because the factory was italian and because of the timeless "made in Italy" vogue.
The french version is interesting because of low availability.


Value of goods that are not mass products is a relative concept. Specifically, talking about the Echorec we have:

- functional value (the price a musician would pay for using the unit)
- collectible value (the price a collector would pay for owning the unit)

Considering there are around 40 different Echorecs, the two buyers above would price different models according to two different, opposite, methods:

- more functional value is associate with a MORE RECENT model, with more features. This buyer cares about the mechanical and electrical conditions, related to the quality of tone.

- more collectible value is associated with OLDER models, with low productions figures (rare ones). This buyer cares about the condition of the original painting, presence of original parts, rare components (eg. the heads of the early T5E are of a very special kind, with visible copper wire, and are not available as replacements). Or, some models are considered more valuable as being historically associated with some artists, albums and movies (eg. the Echorec2 and the 603 models and Pink Floyd)

Just to make one more example, an echorec with newer, replaced, heads could be great for a musician and horrible for a collector.


That being said, and remarking that prices are quite dynamic currently, consider that I'd need several pictures to make a guess, anyway:


Echorec2 T7E
- functional 1300/1500Euro
- collectible 1800/2000Euro

PE-603
- functional 1400/1700Euro
- collectible 1300/1600Euro

I'm assuming tube models, not transistor. Prices can change alot depending on missing,broken or replaced parts, languages,etc... Units in excellent conditions can be sold at higher prices than those.

Damaged units loose more functional value than collectible value because spare parts are mandatory and very expensive. A collector is less affected by this: sometimes a broken original part is more appreciated than a spare part of a different age or brand.

Whichever of the prices above you'll sell at (if you decide), I strongly believe that would likely be a bad deal for you. Think twice.



Hi,

Speaking about the Binson Echorec, do you notice a really big difference between the tube and transistor version?
As soon that your audio goes into a console, it goes into a real big cascade of transistor...
As soon as you use a digital equipment, effect, convertissor, the signal goes thru a even worse sampling process...
What does a binson transistor unit, do you really know...
It only sums the different signal heads. The Roland RE 201 has got even more transistors...And the EH Memory Man even more plus the BBD chips.
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Re: Binson Echorec Restoration

Postby audioexmachina on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:55 pm

frenchyinmunich wrote:
audioexmachina wrote:
Clanger wrote:Good Reply Mr exMachina.

Talking of values, I'm a bit out of the loop. I have one just like this, but in French. It needs work but what do you think it would be worth in good order?

Also I have a PE603T in good order, which I assume is worth a fair bit.

Regards Clanger.



The french version is interesting too.

The italian version is iconic because the factory was italian and because of the timeless "made in Italy" vogue.
The french version is interesting because of low availability.


Value of goods that are not mass products is a relative concept. Specifically, talking about the Echorec we have:

- functional value (the price a musician would pay for using the unit)
- collectible value (the price a collector would pay for owning the unit)

Considering there are around 40 different Echorecs, the two buyers above would price different models according to two different, opposite, methods:

- more functional value is associate with a MORE RECENT model, with more features. This buyer cares about the mechanical and electrical conditions, related to the quality of tone.

- more collectible value is associated with OLDER models, with low productions figures (rare ones). This buyer cares about the condition of the original painting, presence of original parts, rare components (eg. the heads of the early T5E are of a very special kind, with visible copper wire, and are not available as replacements). Or, some models are considered more valuable as being historically associated with some artists, albums and movies (eg. the Echorec2 and the 603 models and Pink Floyd)

Just to make one more example, an echorec with newer, replaced, heads could be great for a musician and horrible for a collector.


That being said, and remarking that prices are quite dynamic currently, consider that I'd need several pictures to make a guess, anyway:


Echorec2 T7E
- functional 1300/1500Euro
- collectible 1800/2000Euro

PE-603
- functional 1400/1700Euro
- collectible 1300/1600Euro

I'm assuming tube models, not transistor. Prices can change alot depending on missing,broken or replaced parts, languages,etc... Units in excellent conditions can be sold at higher prices than those.

Damaged units loose more functional value than collectible value because spare parts are mandatory and very expensive. A collector is less affected by this: sometimes a broken original part is more appreciated than a spare part of a different age or brand.

Whichever of the prices above you'll sell at (if you decide), I strongly believe that would likely be a bad deal for you. Think twice.



Hi,

Speaking about the Binson Echorec, do you notice a really big difference between the tube and transistor version?
As soon that your audio goes into a console, it goes into a real big cascade of transistor...
As soon as you use a digital equipment, effect, convertissor, the signal goes thru a even worse sampling process...
What does a binson transistor unit, do you really know...
It only sums the different signal heads. The Roland RE 201 has got even more transistors...And the EH Memory Man even more plus the BBD chips.




I'd say, if you use a tube stage or a trasistor stage in their linear zone, by definition they sound the same.

In real life neither is perfectly linear. Nor you'd use them that way (in their supposedly linear zone) with an Echorec.


To start with, the device itself is strongly non-linear by nature, due to the magnetic heads/disc behaviour.

The beautiful tones generated by both subtly overdriving the electronics and by electro-mechanical interactions due to aging or occasional glitches (dirt on the rubber wheel, etc...) are definitely dependant on the behaviour of every single little component, expecially those in the feedback loop.

In this regard tube and transistor, in an Echorec, sound different. Not better or worse, different.

Obviously if you keep the electronics as linear as possible (by controlling your levels (input, feedback, tone, output, trimmers..)) then the TONE comes almost exclusively from the disc, making both Echorec architectures almost equivalent (almost, as tube and transistor model use different heads).

But that would be limited to a measurement session, I'd be unable to last a few seconds before diving again in those ever-changing non-linear textures when playing for real.
Image AudioExMachina's Echorec Bible: visit the complete Binson Echorec catalog at http://audioexmachina.wordpress.com/the-audioexmachinas-echorec-bible/
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