These have MG written all over them.

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These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:40 am

This guy must have been MG's best customer (victim)
1st... it's been my experience the G12H 25's only had the Marshall label when they were in an open backed cabinet like a PA etc...
But he's calling them G12H 30's and I wonder how he would know that ? His item descriptions continually display he has no clue.
Fact usually takes a backseat to fabrication.
Ok... so that's not such a big deal but how 'bout T1281's with 003 cones ? And poorly done cone stampings I might add.
This piece has a very pungent odor to it and it's not the mold on the Pinstripe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Marshall-P ... 589d9aa3e1

This one is just as bad. It's so pathetic to try and pass those stampings off as authentic. Forget the fact the T #'s... date and cone codes look bogus. When did Celestion put 1967 date codes on the basket frame ? Trick question ! They didn't.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Marshall-P ... 589d9e0ac3
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby superstar on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:30 am

yeah lash-ups.

the speakers in the A cab actually look legit to me, but clearly have been reconed or messed with somehow. they did fit white labels on the T1281's in closed back cabs from 66 to 67.

date codes on the B cab are a joke.

grill material not original, and the logos are more than likely MG.

wide metal handles on a pinstripe? no way.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:10 pm

they did fit white labels on the T1281's in closed back cabs from 66 to 67.

OK... let's bring me up to speed. Is it a case where they put white Marshall labels on some and Thames Ditton Surrey labels on others ?
I'm sure I've seen early G12H 25's with the TDS label unless I've been hallucinating :shock:
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Strat59 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:45 pm

Seller - Bill Basslaw = Say No More :shhh:
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby superstar on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:55 pm

Yeah they seem to have used both but only with the T1281 speakers. I dont think Ive seen T1221 or T1511 with white labels in closed back cabs.

I used to own a late 66 cab with white marshall labelled T1281's and I know for a fact they were original to it. The guy I bought it from had no idea what he had and was unlikely to have swapped them for period and model correct replacements. Ive seen quite a few others too.

The T1281 was exclusive to Marshall. So my theory is that at first they just shipped them all with white marshall labels on the back, or shipped them blank and marshall put white labels on them all. There are a few around with the 25 watt thames ditton labels (and 75 c/s resonance instead of 55 c/s) but they are pretty scarce. 'LD50' on here, has some in one of his cabs.

From early 68 onwards the T1281's dont usually have any labels on them at all when in closed back cabs. Marshall probably thought it was a waste of labels? who knows.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby LD50 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:37 pm

Bleuz me wrote:
they did fit white labels on the T1281's in closed back cabs from 66 to 67.

OK... let's bring me up to speed. Is it a case where they put white Marshall labels on some and Thames Ditton Surrey labels on others ?
I'm sure I've seen early G12H 25's with the TDS label unless I've been hallucinating :shock:


I have a pair of Jan 68 G12H25 T1281s xx xxx 014 cones but with the Thames Ditton labels (but 75Hz label) and some couple of months later G1H25 T1217 (obviously non-Marshall with the same labels (ie 75HZ) but these labelswoludb be correct as these have xx xxx 03 cones. I can see no evidence that the T1281s have been meddled with or that they had the white labels stuck over the top (like my 20watt T1221s from a PA stack).
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:43 pm

Lets not get carried away here. I'm well aware they put the white labels over TDS labels
That's 45 yr old dirt there.

Image

And most if not all T1281 post '67 pre rola's had no labels.

Image

Image

What I wasn't clear on was the white labels in closed back cabinets

I'm inclined to agree with SS's explanation of the T1281's being specific to Marshall alone so Celestion left them blank and Marshall used the White labels till they decided... why waste them in closed back cabinets and then only used them in open back cabinets. That might explain why '68 open back cabs have white labels and '68 T1281's in closed back cabinets have no labels.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby 908ssp on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Notice too the frames where the tag board attaches. The early speakers had one bent connection point the later speakers had four. In the above auctions he has later speakers in an early cab and early speaker frames in a late cab.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:50 pm

908ssp wrote:Notice too the frames where the tag board attaches. The early speakers had one bent connection point the later speakers had four. In the above auctions he has later speakers in an early cab and early speaker frames in a late cab.

Copy that ! :wink:
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Gooch on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Then there's these T1281's form his past sales:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/marshall-Pre-Ro ... 7675.l2557

They actually look correct, although I've never seen date stamps like that. They may have even come out of one of those cabinets.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:23 pm

It would appear MG was putting labels on everything !
The stampings actually look correct. The cone codes look good and Celestion did stamp the date and T#'s on the cork gaskets (up to and including early '68) After that... they ink stamped the frames.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby superstar on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:10 pm

yeah that last T1281 quad looks legit to me, although personally i wouldnt be buying anything from him just to be on the safe side, and all the more reason he should get his wrist slapped for selling those fakes if he knows what the real ones should be like.

celestions own labels only seem to appear late 67/early 68 on the T1281's. Then again in the 70's of course.

here are some of my old ones from Nov 1966. You can see right through the white labels, no celestion label underneath. these were in a 100 logo 4x12 pinstripe cab (closed back). stamped 14LL on the front rim.

Image
Image

Bleuz the speaker you have pictured (white label with TDL underneath) is a G12M, not a T1281 G12H.

Another thing to look for on the first T1281's is they should also have doping on the reverse side of the cone. Like this:

Image

until around late 1967. As do all the G12H speakers I have seen from that period. I think it tallies with the white paper formers, but I cant be sure.

The cones should be stamped SP444 or 014. SP444 being the celestion part number for a 55Hz cone, and 014 being pulsonics part number.
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Bleuz me on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:30 pm

Bleuz the speaker you have pictured (white label with TDL underneath) is a G12M, not a T1281 G12H.

I don't think you grabbed the essence of my pictorial essay. Six years on this forum... I can identify an M from an H. :wink:
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby superstar on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:37 pm

it was for the benefit of others that might be reading :wink: :lol:
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Re: These have MG written all over them.

Postby Electric Magic on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:42 am

A note about the seller, I had the misfortune of speaking to this clown on the phone one night about a Basketweave he had for sale.

He was asking a PREMIUM price for a cabinet that was in good shape, but he REFUSED to acknowledge that one of the speakers was a replacement. It was pretty obvious (date code was off, speaker was installed with the solder tabs facing in the wrong direction while all the others were correct), but as soon as I questioned him about it, he started to get REALLY angry and defensive with me.

I got responses like...

"Oh, you sound like you spend WAY too much time on the forums!"

"When Marshall made these cabinets back in the '60s, do you think they'd have any idea people like you would be obsessing over them?"

"Listen, I have 2 warehouses full of gear and have been collecting since the '70s, so I know what I'm talking about."

"I have 100% feedback on eBay! If something was wrong, I would tell you!" (Which, upon closer look, was a blatant lie. He has plenty of negatives on there, if you look carefully)

I tried to explain to this genius that I wasn't nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. It's about knowing as much as you can about what you're buying and paying a price that accurately reflects its condition. He wouldn't have any of that and only kept getting angrier and more defensive.

I REALLY wanted that cab, but after this, I wouldn't buy a pack of bubble gum off of him. In fact, I was so put off by the end of the phone call, I was ready to tell him to go to hell. Just an outright dishonest and crude person to deal with.
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