Suprem Club Deluxe

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Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:41 pm

Just bought an old Suprem Club Deluxe through gerrry e-bay.
Wonder what is known and can be told of this rather obscure -60´s German amp?

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From what i´ve read up on they were produced on the outskirts of Stuttgart at the time. In Leinfelden. This particular amp sports a pair of EL-34´s and in turn a GZ-34 for rectifying. A rather light 212 combo.
The "standard" Club used the same EL-34´s just with an EZ-81 rectifier and hence limited wattage. (24w from what i´ve read).
Company build electronics and speaker boxes into the -80s. Did contract work for Hohner et al.

Have through a little help managed to get a hold of schematics for the Super 80,which is a similar build.

Any member with more info on the subject...would be really appreciated.
Mainly bought it as it IS obscure and i´ve simply got a good gut feeling about this one.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby peter horvath on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:50 pm

I hope it sounds as cool as it looks.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Unit_1 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:06 pm

Suprem Club Deluxe

sounds like a sandwich i might buy at Jack in the Box!!! something with bacon and turkey and some Munster

looks nothing like a sandwich

well, maybe a little

can't wait to hear the sound clips!
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:24 pm

Here we go...


A Suprem touched down with me yesterday.

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I´ve told several friends that i simply had a good gut feeling about this one. There was something that told me that this might be "da bomb".
A Suprem Club DL is a rather small amp. Seing it´s power and speaker setup it is also..very sturdy built,compact as hell and light. Real light TBH. Approx 15kg+ or so.
Be aware that there are lids for both the back and front that are off in the pic. A Deluxe in turn,from what i´ve gathered,means that the amp runs a GZ-34 rectifier vs an EZ-81 for the regular Club. The EZ tube can only cope with handling that much current,while the GZ in turn sets for a whole new ballgame.

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From the pictures i had seen i thought the logo was a sticker. Not so obviously... :mrgreen: . Apart from needing a good clean,50yrs of nicotine and what have you not,the amp is in a class A condition. Really.
That said it turns out that a Suprem Club is a rather thought through amp..

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3 channels. IOW none of that excessive Hohner "channels out the fabled". All of them so equipped that you can opt to use DIN or tele as you wish.

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It´s all in the details isn´t it :mrgreen: ? No making mistakes what is what here i guess :lol: . Charming details..

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´N just besides the jacks we have the dials for the reverb. Mark,none of the jacks are breaker ones.

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Cockpit. Not all that much to report about that really. Now,keep in mind that this is a very compact build,the amp is about on par from a size POW with a regular generic 112 combo. Ontop of that it is light as i mention above. Approx 15kg vs a Marshall HEAD of 18kg or so..and OH did it ever turn out to produce the power..did it ever!

So. Started taking the amp apart. It is after all a 50yr old machine and as such NEEDS to be checked up before putting the socket into the wall.

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That there is bad. As in gone by west..as in is no more..as in the milkman always rings twice :lol: . It is the ECL-80 flask for the reverb driver,and that white stuff is the getter material of the tube going milky white as the vaccuum lets go within.

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The amp is setup in two distinct parts. The lower part being the powerstage and trafos aso,and then the upper stage with all the dials asf. Just like on a Hohner all of the preamp flasks resides up there,with the added twist that the phaseinverter does too. In contrast to a Hohner though...here the flasks are installed "standing up".
It is my beilef that this amp has never been taken apart before me last night. Point being that the various screws etc were on there like they were friggin WELDED in place.
The cab in itself..is a REALLY sturyd build and although made from particle board a rather heavy duty setup. No doubt.

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Club Deluxe. Yep. That there are indeed two EL-34´s with a GZ-34 just besides them. From the pics i had seen i at first thought that there polished metal was stainless. Nope. It is polished aluminium. Same goes for the preamp chassis. Iow..light.

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...n this is what it looks like when you yank the powerstage chassis out of there.

So. Having done that check to make sure it wouldn´t bite i hooked her up and out came..nothing :shock: :shock: . Buying a non working amp over the net is always a gamble..so out the DMM came.
Not to worry. The voltages out of the trafo were all there.. Out of the GZ-34 though...not one yota. Have in mind that this amp most likely is produced sometime around -62/-63...and it DOES carry a 3 prong mains wire.
Anyways. I quickly reflowed the various solderjoints around the powerstage chassis and cleaned the sockets out with 7-78...and flicked the switch once again.
Sure enough :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Once and for all. A Club Deluxe is no slouch. Forget about the 24 claimed watts,as it turned out.
Anyway..

The amp was up and running but MAN was it ever low on power and DAMN it sounded awful!

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..once again then due to pisspoor old German caps. They ALL,everyone of them,leaked like crazy! One pot saw inxs of 200VDC!! Funny enough the main e-lytes seem ok though? :o

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Out of them badboys in turn came..nothing. Gonna have to look into that. From the looks of it them two are about 10" or so. Knowing all to well how many an old German speaker sound i´m already giving thought to cutting a fresh baffle for it and equip that with a modern day n age 12".
First though..i´m gonna get sound out of them two boys right there.

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Yep. Even them 22nF caps of the inbound for the powertubes leaked. Mark the little black diode. Yep. A Club DL runs fixed bias. Also mark the black tubing used EVERYFRIGGINWHERE. The amp is hardwired,for better for worse,and i´m certainly gonna toss a whole bunch of solderstrips at it... That there just makes it way harder to work on and solderstrips sure make for a more safety minded approach.

Same goes for the wiring bundle between the preamp and powerstage. It needs to be replaced. The wiring in turn showing evidence of the same sort of "rot" that old Italian Binson echos do. Not as bad,but none the less rot. Further the outbound of the preamp (read-phaseinverter) isn´t coupled before it hits the powerstage. IOW there´s an uncalled for 250VDC or so running in them wires... Shielded wiring will take its place..and the caps in case end up where they belong. By the phaseinverter tube.
Likewise the wiring is hardwired as well,and that is a no-can-do in my book and hence a socket of some sorts will be added.

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Ah! The good stuff! Now although the ECL tube was shot the rest of them were in A ok working order. Good enough.. The amp sounded awful and was low on power right..so i started replacing the needed caps in the preamp to remedy that. Read-any cap that saw DC power.
Oh! The phaseinverter of these is a take on a Paraphase setup btw. Just like the Hohners.

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A nice covering of nicotine and dust..but all there. 4pcs of ECC-83 and the mentioned ECL-80 constitutes the preamp.

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Ah...nice. Just..nice. A pair of old Siemens EL-34´s and a Tfk GZ-34. All in prime order from the looks. Not even the slightest sign of imprint anywhere,so i gather the amp hasn´t been used all that much.

So. Started replacing caps. B+turned in at 435VDC in 240VAC mode and approx 450 in 220VAC mode before replacing caps.. As i was done them voltages upped accordingly.
Yes. In short,this is a 50w amp. Fugedabout the claimed 24 watts of the EZ-81 model.. Loud? Yep. You could certainly say that.

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For once i decided to just repair the amp. No modding per se. Point being that i bet that few has ever heard a Club DL in real life and i wanted to be one of them.

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The powerstage though saw a few trix as i worked on it. "Bias resistors",a trimpot for bias,fresh caps for the bias circuit asf. I set the trimpot for the OEM 33k to ground and at that rate the amp showed 18mA in idle. B+ at this rate was approx 450VDC all of sudden in 240AC mode,and do the math... Them old Siemens flasks have been running stone cold in short.
Reset that to approx 33mA,and as a due result B+ took a dive to approx 425. Seing the heater voltages though i will reset the amp to take 220VAC..
If it turned out to produce the power numbers?
Take WILD guess :lol: . Oh,this is a 50w combo alright!

The first channel is the really mild one. It doesn´t produce any power to be counted for really. The other two though...HELLO! This is the first time i´ve run a stock German amp of the era that really carries at least some decent distortion.
Mind you,ALL of the entry stages are hooked up for "instruments". Ie,they´re all galvanic apart from the tube they run by the means of a 10nF cap.

Have to say that the amp after replacing the caps of the preamp asf is schoolbook silent in idle. Impressive!

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These little buddies. Well. I at least got them to show me they´re alive via the DMM after i reflowed the solderjoints. As for how they sound? No friggin idea yet.

Summary?
Yes. The gut feeling of mine i think was on the money. Sure,the amp needs some work,but that is to be calculated seing its age IMO. Although it works again as of late last night it is to early to pass any form of judgement IMO.
Going to continue working on it today...and hopefully be able to play it a little more.
Worth it?
Seing what i paid for it,most certainly. What that gut feeling of mine tells right now is that this is VERY promising. I also like the general appearance of the amp,and then not just the estetic look of it but more how the actual build has been thought through.
Someone did their homework at Suprem and although i for one regard that hardwiring a bit overkill...that´s one way of doing it i guess.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:48 am

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Really poor pic,sorry ´bout that,but the imperative part is the marking in red. It is a stamping that can be found on both speakers saying aug 14th 1963. Guess that takes care of the dating of the unit.

The ECL-80 for the reverb driver was shot right,but as i became a member of radiomuseum that kind of issues has become way easier to remedy. In short,again radiomuseum to the rescue. A brand new Siemens at the rate of 5 euros. :mrgreen:

Anyway. Back to the shop and..installed the ECL. Had to replace yet a few caps,around the reverb driver,and then we were all systems go from the looks of it.

As i´ve told earlier the innards of the cab holds like a pair of alcoves,one on each side. The left one,seen from the control panel,hides the reverbtank.

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So no. No trafo. The tank is run directly,and that bring rather hefty voltages for the inbound side. Soldered the conns for it back in and sure enough..we had reverb again.
However the reverb is downright silly active so i need to look into that.


As i installed the ECL flask i also reset the inbound voltage for the amp at the seclector to 220VAC. The amp has two heater windings,and doing that made me end up with a 6,4VAC voltage for both heaters. IOW..good enough.
That in turn made me reset and calculate bias and that thing turned in at 38mA@452VDC. We....were ready to go.

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A way more orderly fashion i guess you could say. Altho many of the old crappy poly caps are still in there the imperative ones are all replaced and hence voltage now is where voltage needs to be. None the less the tonestacks asf need replacing too,but one thing at a time.

As is it at least gave me a decent chance to evaluate how a Suprem Club DL sounds stock. Summary of that is that they really sound ok clean. Not Hohner MH good,but way over average with todays standards.
Push the amp to crunch,which is doable,and it still runs fine. Push the amp into distortion though and...no. Nope. It craps itself-for various reasons.

I also got the OEM speakers up and running and have to say that i´ve heard worse. It is one 240mm and one 210mm speaker. Iow 9.5" and 8.5" approx respectively. When pushed tho they start to sound cardboard,as do many an other old speaker of the era,and therefore i will cut yet another baffle for this machine. One that will take a 12". Yes. One COULD make that into 2pcs of 10" as a breeze,but i honestly don´t see the point seing the offerings in 12" of today.

My summary thus far of a Suprem?
Good,high quality,amp that is a delight to use really. Use it as a clean amp or a foundation to work with pedals,if that is you game. Do however not expect a modern day n era rocknroll amp cause it isn´t.
Amongst other advantages it is very light seing it´s power and size. On the particle board topic,i was wrong btw. The baffle is particle board alright,the rest of it is plywood.
In short this can very well be made into a working man hero as i see it. As a 50w in that case it NEEDS a PPIMV or similar means to keep volumes at bay cause this is one LOUD puppy when let to rip!

Next up i´m going to clean up around the tonestacks. That,and more importantly install solderstrips like all over the place. That hardwiring needs to go. It is not especially safety minded in my opinion,no matter the sheathing used. There´s approx 350VDC+ running within that preamp and the hardwire rail is within realms let to wiggle around to hearts content and to trust 50yr old component legs to keep that thing steady enough when bumped around....F no!
So solderstrips are up.
Going to start with the powerstage unit. Likewise the wiring bundle will be replaced. As noted is shows evidence of rot..so no argument there really. At the same time i will install some form of connector to make the amp more service friendly. To be able to separate the units is a minimum as far as i´m concerned from that angle.

For anyone giving thought to an old Suprem all i can say is go ahead. These are high quality well thought through units. Character of them is certainly usable as is for the average jazz or blues guitarist. Just be aware that the amp NEEDS to be checked by a tech first thing,as usual due to them old crappy german made caps used. This is IMPERATIVE to your own safety.
That aside..i´d say that from many a respect this is a gigin musicians delight really. Sounds good..light and portable..powerful enough for any band out there and...vintage. Nice looking too IMO.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Yesterday was once of them interesting days.
Much got done that might not be the sexiest of jobs when it comes to tube amplifiers,but that in this case needed to be done. Ie;converting the powerstage from being hardwired to utilize a tagboard of sorts. In this case one used for Vox amps actually.

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As you can see it looks way different vs the stock setup,and for a reason. This way safety is guaranteed in a much better manner. Funny how these stunts always eat up more man hrs than one expect them to do. Always. On the other hand,there is no shortcut..so..
The stock "tower" e-lyte was tossed in the bin evidently. As a result B+ jumped about yet another 20VDC. I recap,NOT to replace e-lytes of an amp 50yrs old is just folly. Let it also be known that old e-lytes CAN be downright dangerous.
I remodeled the bias circuit completely more or less as i tossed component values around. Further i upped capacitance for it in a major way. The OEM little Siemens diode was replaced by a regular modern day n era 4007.

I got to torq the two trafos back together,i redid the wiring from the PT as the wires coming out of it...many of them had extensions soldered to them OEM and the solerjoints were getting so-so by age.

In turn i got to take a long hard look at the grounding. First of all,these oldies sport a 3 prong mains OEM. Good enough,but sorry to say the safety one was soldered to the main e-lyte grounding washer. Around here at least that is prohibited by law. The safety wire of the three must always run to a prong of its own which is safely secured to the main chassis.
So. Rerouted that. Second up,as these amps are of aluminium no solderprong are really used. Instead there are veru ugly blobs of solder directly to the chassis. This was done away with and prongs were installed and bolted in place. Then i made the amp cater to "the golden rule". Ie,the grounding of the first 47uF cap was run directly to the centertap-s.

When i fired her back up voltage had jumped. We were now seing 385VAC at each side of the GZ-34 rectifier. Ergo about 465VDC under 38mA load.. In short the work paid off.
As previously noted though the amp was remarkably quiet in idle none the less,even before the mods tossed at it.

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The estetics are altered slightly. The OEM DIN speaker outlet was replaced by a tele obviously,and seing how powerful the amp is i´ve installed a PPIMV pot to be able to tame it down. To put the thing on a leash. On the other hand there are,from photos,a number of these floating around that has two holes beside each other already stock,Ie; two speakerjacks.
That hole left by the tower lyte though needs to be adressed. I guess i´ll just cut a piece of aluminium to cover it from beneath. Point being that that way noone can get to poke their little fingers into that hole and injure themselves.

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Them two small holes from the rivets for the OEM jacks stays i´m sorry to say. Not all that much to do about ´em... The by me installed jack on the other hand is a breaker one. When there´s nothing installed into the jack the amp runs as a combo...as soon as you plug a speaker wire in there,it becomes a head.

As you can see in pic no1 i´ve started to replace the wiring....for the speaker outlet too of course,and this is mainly due to wire rot. Insulation is still there altho a breakdown of it most certainly has started,however the real flipside unveils as you cut the insulation away to solder the wire ends. It is in short simply full of oxides and what have you not. Ergo..50yr old wiring needs to be replaced-for better for worse.

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There we go..the powerstage is about done. Very minor details still needs to be adressed,but as a whole the powerstage is done and that means we´re to start on the fun part of this little project. :mrgreen:
The preamp and phaseinverter setup. From a topology POW i will keep the set standard. Ie; the OEM form of hardwiring is plain just out. It CAN be dangerous,and CAN simply isn´t good enough in my book.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:03 am

Server crash and the cam in my cell sighed for the last time.
Inspite... :mrgreen: . You´ll have to excuse the quality of the pics under the circumstance.

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As i´ve touched on before it is one sturdy amp. As you bolt the amp back together it about becomes sort of a monocoque.. immensly strong and light at that.
Anyway. That there is the installed preamp chassis. Three rows of knobs. The first two are for each channel,i made it a twin channel remember,and is gain and a James setup per channel.
Last row is now volume for each channel and in turn a "master" before the Paraphase inverter. Colour coded the inputs per black-clean and white lead.

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I opted to simply use the hole after the OEM tower e-lyte to fab a small piece of sheetmetal and bolt the 6pin socket i bought and made good use of to that. Works. What can i say,and that brings that the entire amp is now detachable at will. Just unbolt and do what´s needed.
Amp indeed is small. Notice what minimum clearance there is for the speaker magnets.
Speakers are supposed to be Heco btw. FAIK they manufacture speakers to this day.

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´N here we go! Back together and all fired up! Works..still need to look into a few things but as a whole i´m a happy camper.
Again notice how the amp chassis and cab per se is bolted together to form this rocksteady amplifier. Wish modern day n era manufacturers would take note!!
...n have in mind that this thing weighs in at a mere 15kg.

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As i´ve written above i opted to install a PPIMV,and that is about all that "tells" that the amp isn´t what you´d expect. However..that knob was just to imperative from an estetics POW so..

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Replaced that with this minescule little knob. Way better IMO,and the telltale just got a whole lot smaller.. :mrgreen: . What´s more it kind of fits the bill.

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Up and running to full potential,and then some. For the first time in ages i bet.

To be a little more tech what´s happend here is that i´ve converted the amp into a dual channel jobbie (is three stock). Both of them start out as dual stagers with a James each. Rail voltages and anode resistors are set to make the two channels differ,as is the James networks. The lead channel carries quite a bit more focus on low midrange.
From thereon though the two channels meet up at their respective "volume" pots and from there the signal is run down into it´s third stage before heading into the now fully adjustable paraphase phaseinverter.
Rail voltages are still rather high and i will spend some more time fooling around with that bit to produce even more overtones asf.

Signal for the reverb is tapped at the junction of the two volumepots. See,after them pots are a pair of 300k resistors working as sort of gridstoppers. One for each channel out. Reverb signal is tapped for each channel between the pot and respective gridstopper. Reverb signal is then wired to an 83 triode..and out of there into the triode side of the ECL-80 per OEM specs. The triode side in turn sends the signal into the pentode side.
However...the pentode is up as a triode...and from thereon into the reverbtank.


So. How does it sound?
Not anywhere NEAR what it looks! :lol: :lol: . I´ll tell you that much! The "clean" channel is..to approx half throttle or so. From thereon out is starts to crunch and ends in..let´s call it AC/DC distortion territory.
The lead in turn picks up where the clean let go.. Have to say that the stock Heco speakers..have heard worse,and TBH...i was dead set on replacing them with a modern day n era speaker.
Now..it just so happens that these old AlNiCo speakers sound perfect when dialing the amps clean channel for some dirty blueswork..and after i´ve had my say to the innards the amp know sports a speaker out jack that bypasses the OEM combo speakers in effect making the amp into a head.
My thinking/reasoning then being..sort of the best of both worlds AS LONG as you haul a 212 or whatever of choice along.

Going to spend some more time tweaking the unit but as a whole.. A Suprem Club Deluxe (the GZ-34 rectified version remember) sure makes for a gigin musicians delight with a little modding.
It is light. It is powerful. It is rare. It is vintage, It carries mojo out the fabled..and handed a bunch of mods and tweaks sounds contemporary enough for any gig.
Could it make good use of a loop?
Nah. It´s an old warhorse and them don´t carry loops... :mrgreen:
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:55 pm

Hm.

Sorry to say i juuuuust lost the auction of a Suprem Piccolo tonight. It went up like a scalded ape...and that for a broken unit. :shock:
The Suprem Club of mine though..
Yes. Just...yes.
First of all i felt that the amp had a bottom end that was rather soggy. Uncalled for soggy. A feature of these amps is that they sport a rather peculiar UL setup for the screens of the powertubes.
Instead of taps off of the regular output transformer winding these amps carry an entirely own winding for the screens. The voltage is tapped after a 750 Ohm drop resistor which is first thing in the B+ line after the output tranformer centertap.. The DC resistance of the UL winding in turn is a measely 11 Ohms.. :shock:
Well. As i set the amp up to run on the 220VAC tap i´m here to tell you that;
A/ Amp had a soggy bottom end
B/ The powertransformer was as a result running half hot.

Now..you know from previous that i´ve come to use high wattage zener diodes to bring voltages for screens down. Ergo,what i opted to do in this case was install yet another solderstrip...and then put two pcs of 20V zeners in series for each screen for a voltage drop of approx 40VDC. As i did this..the voltage after the 750 Ohm first drop resistor raised like 20VDC or so (from 435 to 455) and B+ touched down at 460 sharp. The real main reason for the previous voltage drop being the current consumed by the screens AND that ECL-80 flask for the reverb. (More on that later). As i pulled the zener stunt..the powertransformer indeed came to run WAY cooler..and voltages were all of a sudden more on par with what to expect.
Best of all?
All that soggyness was gone. *Poooof*. Now,have in mind that this is a tube rectified unit and many a TR units indeed show a voltage drop which can be of rather massive proportions as load in increased. Not all of that is wanted at all times so running zeners the way described is a surefire way of routing around that issue.
The TR still IS noticed,just WAY less pronounced and as such..IMO WAY more usable as a whole. As is you notice a SLIGHT compression becoming evident as power and thereby volume goes up.
So. There we were with an amp that sure started to behave. Voltage in surplus,massive trafos asf. Light,compact and sturdy. Good stuff in short!

Enter..reverb.
As i had completely redone the entire preamp topology the reverb signal had to be tapped for later than previously. Further the reverb is direct driven,sans any and all reverb trafos,which brings that there is an impedance issue to cater to. In short,you have to play this a little different.
I at first ran the whole setup per in stock form. Just sans one recovery stage.
That...was a no-can-do. Reverb effect was zero. Nada. Zilch.
So. Seing the increased level of entry signal-seing the now at least two gainstages of each channel-i opted to put the first ECC-83 triode entry stage as a recovery one instead.
That made me at least end up with a reverb effect. Just..way to little.
So. Fooled around for a LONG time increasing amplification of it as well as increasing in signal...to no avail. What i gained at one end i sure as hell lost at another..
All said n done i said.. "F it"...

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Yep. Your eyes ain´t foolin ya! I opted to install yet another ECC-83 flask. Using ONE of its triodes for a second recovery stage,and bingo.. A trimpot as voltage divider for the signal inbound for the last triode made for all the difference.

So.
That done i put the amp back together and tried it out for a while. As is i feel i´ve got a GOOD platform. The three stages of each preamo,the last stage being common to both of them,makes for a very wide and vivid amp. You can now dial it from squeeky clean and by changing channel push into heavy metal territory. The reverb...does its job at that.
So.
First up is band rehearsal come tomorrow. That´s going to be a first for it..and i´ll take it from there. As far as Suprem amps though...my inside tip of the day is to buy one if you run across it. They DO require a bit of work but that boils down to electronics really..the basic foundation of the amp is 100% and they SURE as hell don´t make ´em like they used to!
This Suprem Club Deluxe is the real deal. As short and simple as that. That i will tweak it still...yes i will most likely. As is though..really really happy with it.

Before closing shop today i got to play around with it on the stock speakers for a while. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii dunno boys. Yes. They are old AlNiCo´s...yes...the are the stockers. None the less..i´m going to cut yet another baffle for it and install a modern day n era 12". Point being that i won´t touch the OEM baffle at all. That way..have the cake and eat it too. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Racing on Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:59 pm

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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Unit_1 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:19 pm

total score! :cheers:
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The ability to play/make music is a gift that not everyone gets. Those of us who have it should use it.

Asimov:Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today — but the core of science fiction, its essence, the concept around which it revolves, has become crucial to our salvation if we are to be saved at all.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:52 pm

Thanx! *takes a bow* :D

Buuuuuuuuuuut.....
Oh!
Oh this was way harder than i had thought!

See....seing what i´ve done to the old Suprem there´s a couple of things still needed and that is first of all a different reverbtank. The mere truth is that the stock unit simply wont hold water. It has a ring to it that shouldn´t be there..and second it is just to small (read-decay becomes silly short).
Now..this presents an issue due to the engineering that has been put it. As i´ve noted previously i´m duly impressed by how both compact and light this combo is in light of its power.
In short the cab is full as is. To install a full length tank where the stocker resides in turn is out cause of the simple fact that the combo is to small!! :shock:
Ergo,the only places left are the floor of the cab or the "roof".
To make a Hammond tank i had over since a previous build fit i had to make cutouts in the inner walls of the cab-where the power and preamp chassis both lay.

Image

Here the entire cab is really taken apart. The tank is a regular size Hammond (which incidently the stock unit is too-a Hammond that is) . From what i´ve gathered this install will JUST fit,and have in mind that this way the tank is snugged up against the baffle really. To sum it all up i have no idea as of yet what that proximity will bring.
What i DO know however is that from a sound POW the amp really needs the tank. Simple as that,and then simply to make the reverb into something usable by todays standards.

That said..

Next up was to get rid of the stock speaker setup right. Easy as pie!
NOT! :roll:

Again..this amp is really a sort of engineering feat...rendering that the mere proposition of installing a 12"er of modern day n age size is...a challenge.
After a LOT of measuring and moving the speaker around the following was the ONLY way we could conclude would make this work,and then barely. As in DAAAYYYUUUUM! :o :shock:

Image

This...is the new baffle. As you can notice i´ve had to countrsink for the speaker to be frontmounted. Why? Well...there´s a lid to fit to that too remember ;) ?
As such i´m still not 100% sure this will fit all the way. I will,one way or another,have to move the rectifier tube. Alex was present...and even suggested that i´d install the TR upside down! Iow,upside down within the chassis,and TBH the mere idea isn´t all far off seing what´s involved here..
One second advantage of having the speaker front mounted is that is makes for greater ease when i work on the amp making it all fit..
Make no mistake though.
This little very very light and powerful combo..is "german". Ie,it is engineered. Really ENGINEERED. No matter..it IS 50yrs old...it IS of 50watts all said n done..and it weighs a mere 13.5kg. Yep. Put the thing on a scale..
13.5kg. 50 watts. 50yrs old.
Do the math. The boys down in Leinfeldten sure knew how to make this happen. I believe the word i´m looking for is...impressive. ´Cause that is EXACTLY what this little combo boils down to.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:37 pm

Whoooha Nellie!
This..this was really to close for comfort! All well that ends well though,and that much i can assure..it ended as we asked for.

Image

Before i took to cutting a fresh baffle last night we played around with the available scenarios as best as we could ending up with a couple of idea of how to make it all fit.
Then..i opted to front mount the speaker and that in itself present limits as there´s a lid that fits up there too all said and done right. So...i countersunk the installation flange for the speaker and..yeah. Close..REAL close..but it fit at least. As you can see the magnet kind of covers most of the octal socket where the GZ-34 resides,and that indeed IS an issue :lol:
Before i opted to countersink the speaker flange the magnet would just cover the entire area...no good..

Image

The reverbtank then. It is an old Hammond unit i had laying around (which the stock one is too) just way longer to physical build and what´s more...sans 50yrs of oxides. This thing at least worked. As you can see i had to notch the "walls" that points inwards into the cab-which the two amp chassis rest on. Close...i believe is the word..

Image

Thank god for routers huh :mrgreen: ? I indeed countersunk the flange,albeit not entirely. This means that a few mills protrude atop the baffle top...which i will remedy by fabbing a small "frame" which i tension the upcoming baffle fabric over.. Close...is the name of the game ;)

Image

So. What i did was just to trade places with the socket running for the preamp and the octal for the GZ-34! Still...IS a daaaaaaaaayyyyyuuuuuuuuum close call my friends! This was an exercise in applied mathematics my friends.. Cause i wanted to alterations needed to be kept to an absolute minimum. Stock is the name of the game right..

Image

So? Close? HOW close?
This close. We´re talking millimeters here.. ;) . In short,apart from the notching needed for the reverb tank in itself the OEM baffle can still be 100% reinstalled,OEM speakers and all..
It´s to the point where i had to take the OEM rubber band around the magnet of the Cannabis Rex speaker off of there to make this thing work. THAT is how close a call this was!
Neatly enough total weight went up like...1kg. IOW this is by any measure STILL an extremely light combo. A working mans piece of equipment. This can now be hauled around as one sees fit..just add the lids over the cockpit and the speaker..and off off and away..

So. We´re at a point with this "build" where we´ve got us a combo lighter than a DLR..with twice the power...MUCH more attitude and grunt..and a now just as good and usable...reverb.

Hm.
When we played around with the amp yesterday we concluded that something was amiss with the tank. Further,it wasn´t exactly the pinacle of what Hammond produced. It is simply,from a practical POW,to short first of all making it more into a delay than a reverb really. In turn there was a metallic ring to it that none of us really appreciated.
Well. The dice had already been thrown as far as replacing the reverb tank right so i hooked it all up on the workbench...and there STILL was an annoying part to the sound.
After having tossed trix after the setup like they were going out of style i caved in and out the oscilloscope came. Turns out..that with a mu of a mere 20 or so the triode section of the ECL-80 was sent to much signal inbound that it in turn sent the PENTODE into clipping!
No WONDER the reverb sounded funny!
So. Scrapped the set resistors around the pentode..and replaced with trimpots and..HELLO!!! All of a sudden we had ourselves a first class reverb!

This way i put the amp back together and just pure enjoyed it for an hour or so. This..this is gig ready. Knowing myself though i´m absolutely certain that i´ll come to toss yet a few tweaks at it before calling it a day.
Happy?
Yes. Very. This is in many ways what makes up a gigin guitarist prayers. It is light...it is sturdy..it is durable..it is powerful...it is full of grunt and cleans both..it is filled to the brim with tubes of the golden era and it friggin sounds da bomb.
So yeah. Happy. Very.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby peter horvath on Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:45 pm

Great story, great amp.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:24 pm

Thanx Peter.

Since i did that Suprem i´ve been on the lookout for more of them.
They do surface on German e-bay from time to time,and what´s more...the Club...the Club DL and in turn the "little brother",the Piccolo.

Thus far i´ve found that the Piccolos fetch a little more than i´d care to fork out,´til a couple of nights ago that is. :mrgreen:

Image

So this is a heads up of things to come. The Piccolo is in many ways your average "18watter" and as such maybe not all that fascinating. None the less,having experienced the Club..i have to say that my expectations are rather high for the Piccolo too.

Image

Yep. Just as the Club the Piccolo turns into a downright suitcase at will :thumbsup:

Expect to take delivery late next week. Stay tuned.
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Re: Suprem Club Deluxe

Postby Racing on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:16 am

So.
I bought me a Suprem Piccolo right.
The Suprem Club Deluxe is one serious powerpack in a VERY managable package,and that made me expect a small amp with the Piccolo.
Small?
Uh...yeah. Yeah it´s small. To the point where a Fender Pro Jr is a size GIANT!
it is so small that an 8" speaker is all that´ll fit. :lol: . It makes a Dynacord DA series amp look like Titanic.

The one i bought had certainly seen use. Nothing new there,and what unraveled when i slit the cardboard box was...

Image

Image

Image

..an amp with a cab a bit worn alright,but all the marbles of it were still there. As you can see,picked apart,the amp is a rather sturdy build. Just like its big brother the Club.
Only drawback thus far has been the latches for the lid. These are certainly not stock and the rattle like SOB when you play it.

Anyways.
I did a quick check safety wise and flicked the switch. Something was amiss alright :lol: ,cause with approx 265VAC in on the EZ-80 rectifier i had 230VDC out the other end. :shock:
So..

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Replaced the stock tower e-lyte with a pair of clip ins soldered to a strip and flicked the switch again...better. Approx 285VDC. Still nothing to write home about though.
I then replaced the EZ-80 with an EZ-81 i had laying around and voila!! Approx 320VDC...NOW we were getting somewhere!

As Ol´Fret writes a bit up these Suprem amps are different animals then say a Hohner. A Suprem will distort when pushed,and at least not totally sans merit. The entry stages are setup with an "instrument" topology as is the nomer many a time with older amps,and despite that the amp sounds at least OK when pushed.
The onboard 8" stock speaker though...nah...just..nah.

So. What´s to become of this? My current thinking is along the lines of the small 18w Geloso 3215-A. Iow a 1 channel amp catering to rocknroll. Stock these amps are sort of versatile i guess in as much that the funky inputjacks are even marked "phono". Be that as it may this particular amp at least does NOT work like the schematic found online for the Piccolo.
The schematics call for a concertina setup push/pull machine,and this is not. It sports a regular longtailed pair phaseinverter. It differed in yet a few areas,but as a whole these Piccolos are rather simply built so...
None the less. Tfk 83´s...and Siemens EL-84´s.

The thing here is that the Piccolos use the same sort of rather odd ultralinear hookup as does the Club for the screens of the powertubes. Hm.
Going to look into that a bit.

Further the two powertubes are cathode biased via a 150 Ohm resistor,and this resistor does NOT use a decoupling cap per normal. IOW this little amp is powerlimited more than it needs to be..

Image

So. The three knobs will get to be; gain/gain/PPIMV. In turn i´ll install a James into two of the lower inputjack holes and then a Cliff for input as well as speaker out,and speaker out...it friggin NEEDS!

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The little experience i have with the Suprems i think they are of high build quality. I find that engineering has been put into the two differing projects by pros in their own field. The electronics has been developed by someone...and in turn the cab and build thereof by someone else. The amp as a whole is rather thought through seeing its age.
Now,be that as it may i still frown upon how these amps are soldered together. This "leg to leg" kind of deal with PVC hose insulation is a friggin abomination if you ask me,and ergo it has GOT to go. To at least by the use of soldersupports suspend components at each end...is a minimum IMO. Ergo... That there is the topology of the phaseinverter as of tonight.

TBH..i expect this one to be a quick little project.

But again..
DAAAYYYUUUM these things are small and DAAAYYYUUUM them loud seeing their size! :mrgreen:
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