Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

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Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby stewart on Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:01 pm

I hear so much silly information passed around about old Marshalls and GHOST NOTES....I've even heard this said about the "Peacemaker"... etc.
What's the deal with this? Why such a big deal? I can't tell you how many times I've played an old Marshall "Plexi" that produced ghost notes, but most of the time, it was not so bad that I could not play undisturbed. I'm sure MANY old albums have this going on with the recorded amps, but the music plays on. What's your experience with this and how much of a problem is it really in your view???
"Swear by anything and eventually you will swear at it!"
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Mickra on Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:59 pm

I tried everything to get rid of the Ghosting in my SL Plexi `67 with 32my filtering.
i increased the filtering up to 100my (sounded and reacted more like a Hiwatt then, different biasing and what not. I ended with Tone Bones which are similar to the yellow jackets (El84 sockets). Sound changed but no ghosting or try to reduce to 50Watts 2xEl34s.
It´s up to you. Don´t waste time, cause I did it for you already:-))
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby steve ouimette on Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:02 am

I don't know why, but I've always liked the ghosting effect on 100 watt Marshall's. Yeah, it's out of tune and all, but it's nothing compared to the amount that comes out on my AC-30.

The whole thing just sounds like Rock and Roll to me :D
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby DavidFloyd on Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:18 am

I haven't experienced a wide variety of the really old Marshall amps like the JTM 45/100's but it seems the ones with the taller power transformers ghost dramatically less even with the same 50uf filter caps. Just my experience from a couple that I've owned with 2.5 inch trannies.

My first AC30 also ghosted quite a bit even with doubled filtering and with the desirable Woden PT. My second (and only) AC30 has a Parmeko and also double filtering and it's not a problem at all - I don't hear a thing, maybe a tiny bit in the background when its cranked and I'm pushing it for a lead.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Tainted on Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:25 am

I havent noticed it so much on marshall amps but old fender stuff is pretty bad. Underfiltering and tweed disease seems to be the worst offenders in an amp.
Wore out Speakers pushed hard do this also, its hard to say? I have a BFSR that is a bad ghost note producer when cranked. Hit that low E or D and wow muddy out of tune freqency I really think its the speakers more than anything. Vox seems bad I played an AC-30 with a les paul once and I thought the guitar kept going out of tune and I`d check it and it was fine, very strange?
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby geetarpicker on Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:28 am

I once modified my old '67 Plexi Super Lead with over 1,000mf per side in the power supply! Yes over 10x the stock value. At that point it didn't double note AT ALL, and somehow the tone was fairly untouched believe it or not. I used HUGE computer grade Mallorys (4 x 2200mf @350v) caps in a series parallel arrangment like in a Super Reverb or something. I also used a very high current diode bridge, and had a fan near the power transformer. I mounted the caps on some brackets over on the preamp side of the chassis. The caps practically filled that side of the chassis near the preamp tubes and actually helped balance the amp when you picked it up!

I ran the amp for several years like this, usually into an attenuator with everything dimed with no problems.

In later years I learned the beauty of the stock amps and learned to not "solo" my Super Lead as much on the recording studio console!

Still I can say that if you have a ton of double noting it can actually dampen sustain by choking off controlled feedback.

Currently I have a '68 Super Bass and I just live with the stock filtering.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Ned B on Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:01 pm

My tech has always favored higher power filtering. I had 550s in a big tranny '67 and I have them in a '69 and a '73. I think they take you away from what a '67 or earlier is all about. The sag and ghosting (as long as it isn't too much)is part of the sound. I think the trade off works like this: It may clean up the output by not having 60 cycle hum inpressed on the wave form, but you stress your PT and sometimes these over filtered amps get that "constipated" sound.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Marshall Maniac on Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:35 pm

When I first got my purple reissue, the previous owner had installed 350uF caps in place of the stock 50+50s. I never noticed any ghosting.

When I guttet it and rebuilt it as a JTM45/100, I installed 32+32uF caps. It ghosts pretty good now. ;) I find it only slightly annoying when I do neck-pickup single notes on 10. Otherwise, it doesn't bother me, and I think it is part of the sound, along with the sag.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Roy Boltz on Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:25 pm

I find the ghosting a problem for me because I boost my inputs to high heaven & that is when I hear it the most,it seems to interfere with my violin sustain.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby Capt.Strat on Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:43 pm

The only one of my amps that ghosts is my 1987x. My Super Bass, my 2205, Sound City 120 and Bandmaster don't do it, so I find it kind of annoying when I use the 1987. I've been trying to get rid of it, but it's kinnd of a persistent problem.
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Re: Marshalls and Ghost Notes?

Postby cerrem on Tue Oct 14, 2003 11:09 pm

The ghost notes are derivative of the 120HZ ripple in the power supply ....not 60HZ..
The most sensitive location in the amp for making ghost notes is the SCREEN supply....
I find that once in a while an amp will be stubborn in terms of getting rid of the ghost notes..this is usually due to the inductor being out of tolerance that feeds the screen supply....so with age added in to a bad gap at the factory I have measured some inductors at 2 Henries and lower....The gap shifts sometimes...
Don't change ALL the bloody filter caps in the amp when you are chasing down a ghost note...just focus on the screen filtering, such as the cap and inductor...
Regards
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