Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Hosted by Marshall Founding Father G3SDW. Discuss JTM45, JTM50, JTM100, Bluesbreaker, Super Lead, Super Bass, 200W, 100W, 50W, 20W, Plexi Panels, Metal Panels, 4x12 straight, 4x12 slant, Pinstripe, Basketweave, Checkerboard, Park, Kitchen-Marshall and Narb

Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby API on Mon May 16, 2016 2:36 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Banker.
I was almost tempted to give Justin a call to try to get him to confess that it is one of his.
1966 JTM45/100, 1967 "1959" Super Lead, 1967 "1961" JMP 4x10" Mk I Bluesbreaker, 1967 "1962" JMP 2x12" Mk I Bluesbreaker, 1967 "1973" Master Reverb 18w combo, 1963 AC30, 1964 AC15 Twin, 1963 Watkins Dominator, 1965 Princetone Reverb, 1957 Gibson GA-40 Les Paul, 1962 Gibson GA-40 LP, 1962 Epiphone Pathfinder
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Mon May 16, 2016 2:44 pm

After looking at these four amps 2. the clapton amp is actually the most believable as far as an original jtm45 in a version II box. Mine probably originally left marshall in a version one box anyway? At first i questioned the dark brown (mahogany) die on the top insides but after looking at some earlier amps see that is common.

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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Mon May 16, 2016 2:56 pm

Both the 18 watt and the JTM45 block logo on the front of the BB book are fake.

The amp that was for sale Carter's is the amp on the cover of the BB book. and it is so fake it's not funny. I saw this amp in person at Arlington, and provided Walter with a long and detailed explanation of why it is so wrong.

The final 2x12 18 watt below is straight, and owned by Bobby V, it came from Paul at ampaholics.

The tags on the bottom two, placed in the corner, are aluminium, not plastic, and have hand punched serial numbers. They are also present on alnico era, block logo cabs and columns, with the latter often providing the "furniture" and drivers for the fakers.

If your 1973 18 watter was really made in 1968, it would have solid state rectification rather than an EZ81.

You're making the mistake of justifying your fake by comparing it with other known fakes.

:dumass:
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Mon May 16, 2016 3:03 pm

The Clapton knob BB above is a straight amp, now owned by Tom in Hawaii.

The other amp I don't know, but there are a couple of obvious questions.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Mon May 16, 2016 3:06 pm

As stated earlier in this post. The 1968 model 1973 was originally a 20w that has now been converted to the 18w circuit.
This includes the ez81 and the extra preamp stage tube 12ax7.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Mon May 16, 2016 3:18 pm

To me the removable power cord on the clapton amp does not look original.
The black speaker jack does not look original.
The extra speaker jack does not look original.
The left speaker or cover does not look original.
Now something else very interesting worth mentioning is the two different tolex colors marshall used on this amp.
Top and bottom are different from the sides.
I have also seen marshall do this before.
On an original 20w bass head.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Mon May 16, 2016 3:34 pm

The block logo amp on the front of the blues breaker book looks like the tolex is to smooth to me?
From what i have seen on other amps and cabs from this era.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Mon May 16, 2016 4:07 pm

silverface82 wrote:As stated earlier in this post. The 1968 model 1973 was originally a 20w that has now been converted to the 18w circuit.
This includes the ez81 and the extra preamp stage tube 12ax7.


18 watt models 1974 were still manufactured in early 68. I have one of the very last, bone factory stock.

The very last ones featured SS rectification, despite still having the chassis set up for an EZ81.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Mon May 16, 2016 4:11 pm

silverface82 wrote:To me the removable power cord on the clapton amp does not look original.
The black speaker jack does not look original.
The extra speaker jack does not look original.
The left speaker or cover does not look original.
Now something else very interesting worth mentioning is the two different tolex colors marshall used on this amp.
Top and bottom are different from the sides.
I have also seen marshall do this before.
On an original 20w bass head.


You're confusing the two amps.

The Clapton knob amp has a fixed power cord, albeit replaced (likely for earthing). The trem pedal wire is also replaced. It doesn't have an extra speaker jack.

The top amp with Greenbacks looks wrong on multiple levels.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Mon May 16, 2016 4:28 pm

Ok, you are talking about the version one?
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Mon May 16, 2016 5:18 pm

silverface82 wrote:Ok, you are talking about the version one?


The bottom amp, above, with the Clapton knob,s left the factory as a Bluesbreaker.

The one above it looks wrong at first glance, but I'd need to see more pictures.

The Beano amp? Personally, I suspect it's either an 18 watt 2x12 or a JTM45 in a custom cab. I doubt we'll ever know.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby shakti on Mon May 16, 2016 7:35 pm

Banker;

when is the first time you see the more recessed and rounded front panel opening on the 18w cabs? The earliest ones had a more squared off cutout, where the chassis and panel rested straight onto the outer cab shell. 1967 ones all appear to have the thicker, rounded opening for the front panel, but I am curious if you see them before that. And would you ever have seen any with alnico speakers and the rounded cutout?

As for Clapton using an 18w 2x12, that's an interesting thought experiment since there are no definite legitimate style II JTM45 combos around.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby silverface82 on Tue May 17, 2016 12:41 pm

Alnico wrote:Quoting my post from page 2...

Alnico wrote:Based on the other features, I fully expected it to have '66 date codes stamped on the baskets...


And there they are on the EJ amp! This one only needed those for the full house.


No, I am sorry that is not where near a full house.
Now for the real fake.
Those of us that know fakes, know there is a reason.
It is called money.
The value year for a marshall amp is 1970.
This year you get the parts that are similar to plexi parts without the plexi price.
Now we all know it is not uncommon to see a 100w head on ebay a 1970 that someone slaped repro plexi panels.
Here we go it is the bluesbreaker version.
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What we see here is a 1970 model 1987t that someone put repro plexi panels on.
Also modifying it to a tube rectifier possibly changing the power supply transformer.
Building a box or just using an artist box then retolexing modifying to two face.
Putting after market grill cloth on.
Finally passing it of as a late 1967 blues breaker.
This dark colored tag board is common for 1970.
Also we notice the large square diode power supply on the left of the tag board.
Two original speaker jacks that just would not normally be found on a 1967 blues breaker.
We do also see the removable power cord.
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Although it is still entirely possible this was a 1969 blue breaker that someone just modified from salt and pepper top to bottom, to be a two face pinstripe?
Who am i to say...Perfect example that things aren't always what they seem.
We also see the tropical fish caps in this amp and know it originally was a vintage marshall amp of some sort.
And no matter what i think or say, it still is what it is.
Last edited by silverface82 on Tue May 17, 2016 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Tue May 17, 2016 1:23 pm

shakti wrote:Banker;

when is the first time you see the more recessed and rounded front panel opening on the 18w cabs? The earliest ones had a more squared off cutout, where the chassis and panel rested straight onto the outer cab shell. 1967 ones all appear to have the thicker, rounded opening for the front panel, but I am curious if you see them before that. And would you ever have seen any with alnico speakers and the rounded cutout?

As for Clapton using an 18w 2x12, that's an interesting thought experiment since there are no definite legitimate style II JTM45 combos around.


I haven't really paid too much attention to that aspect of cab builds TBH. The main difference I see in mine is that on the late 65 or early 66 amps (alnico) the top panel is almost flush with the cabinet sides. The radius of the curvature of the top part of the cabinet is also slightly more pronounced on the early ones.

I've started to look at overall cab construction with a more critical eye recently. I have a couple of unquestionably correct block logo JTM45's, both bass model and less than 40 numbers apart (whatever that implies), and the head cabinets are different in construction (almost flush versus recessed front), slightly different in the size of the hole for the control panel, as the tolex is different.

I can take some photos if you like, but I'm notoriously slow....... :whistling:
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Re: Cool Vintage Marshall Guy

Postby Banker on Tue May 17, 2016 1:26 pm

silverface82 wrote:Now for the real fake.


And there was me thinking denial was a river in Africa.

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